Canon in D as a wedding song; Sutherland's Best Actor snub; Mary Tyler Moore shock value; Good Will Hunting borrowing; odd dialogue; unwrapped candy apples
The Canon, the theme of one of the most dysfunctional family movies, is now the standard wedding song. — Bill Simmons
Sutherland's Best Actor snub has aged the worst. — Bill Simmons
The shock of Mary Tyler Moore as the evil mom has faded; there is no current equivalent, perhaps Aniston in the mid-2000s. — Bill Simmons
Good Will Hunting borrowing from this film bugs one host a tiny bit, prompting a joke to get Matt and Ben back on the show. — Bill Simmons
A spouse noticed odd lines that could fuel a sketch, like Sutherland's remark about the leaves at the end; the counterpoint is that he is incoherent because Beth left. — Bill Simmons
In a 2013 Esquire profile Redford claimed Kael turned on him after he refused her offer of tips; one host distrusts Redford, citing how Redford treated William Goldman, a friend of the host's, over All the President's Men. — Bill Simmons
In reply, Kael was tempted by figures like Warren Beatty to develop movies, so an exchange with Redford is believable, though no one can be trusted on what happened. — Sean Fennessey
Kael also feuded with Clint Eastwood, and in the last Dirty Harry movie a critic resembling her is murdered. — Bill Simmons
Handing out unwrapped candy apples for Halloween could not happen now. — Bill Simmons
Costner: no; his peak is still Dances With Wolves, which won all the Oscars and made him the new Warren Beatty, with no argument. — Bill Simmons
Oliver Stone: it might be this, since he got a studio to fund an assassination movie with his made-up theory and made The Doors and JFK in the same year; called a really good case. — Bill Simmons
JFK assassination conspiracies peaked in the early 90s: agreed. — Bill Simmons
Michael Rooker: Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer is his high point, with Henry and JFK in about a two-year span when it was all happening for him. — Bill Simmons
Henry is recommended as a realistic, disturbing film; one participant recalls seeing it before a game at a theater near BU with seven other men; tangent: Henry and One False Move as a never-sleep-again home double feature.
Rooker being the most normal-seeming character shows how crazy the movie is; his LBJ argument scene is called absurd and possibly cut down.
Rooker is praised in Cliffhanger and now in the MCU; one participant has met with him.
Wayne Knight, no question: Newman at the same time and Jurassic around then.
The Zepruder (as transcribed) film as Apex Mountain: yes, with a reference to the Time-Life building.
Also joked about: the Cowboys doing well in '91, and a Zupruder (as transcribed) NFT pushed by Gary Vee. — Brian Koppelman
Richardson: a filmography spanning Stone's films from Salvador through Nixon, John Sales (as transcribed), Scorsese and Tarantino; at the top of his game here; a jab that he's no Gordon Willis, but flexible with a distinctive blown-out overhead light.
Gibson is argued as a great, wild-eyed Garrison who would better represent Stone's mind, and who later made Conspiracy Theory; another questions casting an Australian. — Sean Fennessey
Harrison Ford doesn't make sense but is a big what-if, with a wish he had more movies like this.
Don Johnson tried hard for Garrison and has post-Miami Vice appeal, but doesn't read smart enough to be the district attorney. — Brian Koppelman
Jeff Bridges would have been amazing; 'Hank' (as transcribed) might work but may be two years too young and too aw-shucks. — Brian Koppelman
Frank Whaley was going to be Oswald, and after the part went to Oldman he was made the imposter.
Willem DeFoe (as transcribed) and John Malkovich turned down the Ferry role; Malkovich in the red wig would have been mind-boggling.
Stone considered Marlon Brando for Mr. X, joked to need SNL monologue-style cue cards.
Origin: Stone met Warner Brothers about a Howard Hughes film, but Warren Beatty had the rights, so JFK was the backup pitch; jokes follow about carrying three pitches and a Doug Collins 1972 Olympics pitch.
The storming of the U.S. embassy is the first nominee, an electric eight-minute scene: the dartboard with the Ayatollah picture, the Marine commander going out to reason and being grabbed, and the order not to shoot anyone or start World War III while they burn the classified material. — Bill Simmons
The opening establishes each of the six, with Tate Donovan leading but an airhead and Scoot as the locker-room guy questioning the coach; small details include a captor taking a woman's glasses. — Chris Ryan
The frantic destruction of equipment recalls a Grantland one-hour evacuation plan near the end of the ESPN era that was never executed. — Bill Simmons
Mendez shooting down every rescue plan, such as bicycles 300 miles to the Turkish border with a tire pump, is the next nominee; it is compared to Chuck Kosterman calmly rejecting pitches at Grantland, and the scene is full of that-guy actors like Titus Welliver. — Bill Simmons
Goodman listening to the plan and the "associate producer at best" exchange lead into meeting Arkin, who is basically playing Alan Arkin with lines like the one about counting the wrinkles on his dog's balls. — Bill Simmons
Arkin was nominated essentially for playing himself; once Goodman and Arkin arrive, the film gains levity, comedy and sunlit Hollywood scenes. — Bill Simmons
Mendez meeting the Canadian six ("I get people out"), Scoot's "bad cards" speech and the intense bazaar scouting trip are singled out. — Bill Simmons
Affleck drilling everyone on their cover stories before the airport is praised as hard, tough-love coaching. — Bill Simmons
The hosts relate that Led Zeppelin allowed When the Levee Breaks but required the needle to sit near the end of the album side, matching the song's real position, so the shot was redone. — Bill Simmons
The song is called perfect for the night before the escape while things fall apart back home. — Bill Simmons
The last-minute ticket scramble with Cranston and the airport checks start the last 20 minutes, called the best part of the film, up to the announcement that alcohol can be served after clearing Iranian airspace. — Bill Simmons
Scoot explaining the movie premise to the angry guard, the call to Arkin and Goodman and the takeoff are listed. — Bill Simmons
The celebration montage is a favorite and covers the whole spectrum of celebrations, from Cranston's dry crying and Scoot's handshake to Messina's premature celebration and Arkin and Goodman dancing.
Asked for a final pick, one participant chooses the presentation of all the different escape plans. — Chris Ryan
The other pick is the stretch from the airport to the celebration montage, the part that led to watching the film over and over. — Bill Simmons
Fox wanted Warren Beatty for Gecko, who wasn't interested; Stone wanted Richard Gear, who passed during a stretch of bad movies. — Brian Koppelman
Gear would have been good and looked great, as in Internal Affairs, but he does slow burn rather than the verbal pyrotechnics Douglas studies. — Brian Koppelman
Beatty holds months of conversations and then says no, as he did to Goldman on Misery. — Brian Koppelman
Gere's "I got nowhere else to go!" is praised, from a movie producer Craig has definitely never seen. — Brian Koppelman
An internet claim that Pacino turned down Gecko in a 1992 Barbara Walters interview is called bullshit; the guess is that his agent passed on a script Pacino never really wanted. — Brian Koppelman
Tom Cruise wanted Bud Fox and lobbied Stone, who was committed to Charlie; they later made Born on the Fourth of July. — Brian Koppelman
Stone gets chippy on the commentary about Bright Lights, Big City shooting at the same time; Michael J. Fox was a miscast there and Downey Jr. would have been a home run. — Brian Koppelman
Per Stone, Hannah was not happy in the role and he should have let her go; Sean Young almost got fired and a Bud affair storyline was cut. — Brian Koppelman
Judge Smales's rough week; bare heads on the course; Caddyshack lines at golf tournaments; Denunzio's swing and outfit; the gopher; Maggie; the Baby Ruth Jaws parody; Lou unfazed by explosions; the John Peters story
Judge Smales's week is listed (transcribed as "what stage is the worst"): his course blew up, his boat sank, he nearly killed an old lady, learned about his niece and that Ty's dad never liked him, lost an illegal $80,000 match and was chased by Moose and Rocco. — Bill Simmons
Golf broadcasters forcing Caddyshack lines into tournaments has aged terribly. — Bill Simmons
Denunzio's corkscrew golf swing (a Rob Deere comparison, and a Chris Ryan joke) and blouse-like outfit are worse; only Danny swings well, and the outfit looks headed to a Chippendales shift. — Bill Simmons
The gopher is not funny: liking it was once a disqualifier, it was an attempted fifth comedy style like the Muppets or Gremlins, and the sequel doubled down; the reply jokes that Caddyshack 2 never happened. — Sean Fennessey
Maggie is one of the worst sports-movie characters, with an unexplained Irish accent though actress Sarah Holcomb was American; she is from Animal House and reportedly left acting with mental health problems; the quickly resolved pregnancy subplot was unneeded. — Bill Simmons
The Baby Ruth bar as a Jaws parody was a great idea in 1980 but is less effective 40 years later. — Bill Simmons
Lou the Caddymaster stares at Danny's last putt while bombs go off; suggested explanations are Vietnam service or how badly he wanted Smales crushed. — Bill Simmons
As told on the show, producer John Peters, a former hairdresser said to have inspired Warren Beatty's Shampoo and married Barbara Streisian (as transcribed), arranged a Playboy shoot of Cindy Morgan, threatened her career when she declined, and Ramis cancelled the shoot. — Bill Simmons
It is said she did not work after that, then noted that she starred in Tron and worked in TV through the 80s and 90s but could have had a much bigger career; it is framed as an early version of a Me Too era story. — Bill Simmons
The hosts say Simpson and Bruckheimer offered Val Kilmer a headlining role, which he declined and later regretted; the role was never specified. — Bill Simmons
Guesses for the Kilmer role are Viggo's part or Hunter, possibly turned down for not being big enough; he could have played every part except Hackman's. — Bill Simmons
Al Pacino was originally offered Captain Ramsey and would have dialed it up to 90 in his Vincent Hanna zone. — Bill Simmons
Warren Beatty was courted, another case of Beatty flirting with a part for a year before declining, as with the Burt Reynolds part in Boogie Nights, which is called the bigger miss; he would not have fit this movie. — Bill Simmons
Per a Don Simpson interview at Santa Anita, Pitt and Tom Cruise were considered for Denzel's part; Cruise was the first call for such parts for a decade, but it worked out perfectly. — Bill Simmons
De Niro wanting to play Vincent, with Pacino aged up, seems true; Coppola did think about it. — Bill Simmons
Sinatra for Altobello is carried into the what-ifs alongside the names mentioned for Vincent. — Bill Simmons
The actor who played Willie Cicci (transcribed "Joe Spinelli") was supposed to work for Zasa but died before the movie, so the character was written out. — Bill Simmons
Paramount approached Sly Stallone, Scorsese, Cimino and Warren Beatty over the years; in the early 80s Stallone was to write and direct with John Travolta, and there is an internet rumor that Eisner took a run at the script.
Redford was not the original Sundance: Jack Lemmon was offered the part, at Goldman's suggestion, and turned it down feeling he had played too many aspects of the character; Warren Beatty turned it down as too similar to Bonnie and Clyde; Steve McQueen was in, and the title was to become The Sundance Kid and Butch Cassidy because McQueen considered himself the bigger star than Newman.
The fight over whether McQueen or Newman would be billed first drove McQueen off the movie; asked whether this is true, one participant confirms that kind of nonsense happens all the time, over billing and over parts not taken.
Fox president Daryl Zanuck (as transcribed) made the unusual suggestion that half the prints bill Newman first and half McQueen, McQueen refused and left, and they got Redford, a handsome theater actor nobody knew, known if at all for urbane Neil Simon comedy like Barefoot in the Park; he has maybe a hundred words in the movie, becomes a giant star in four expressions, gives a great performance, and played men of few words for the rest of his career, even as Bob Woodward.
The long sepia close-up when Redford is first met, held while someone else talks, is one of the all-time close-ups and became a Redford signature, a good editing-room decision; Goldman wrote that Newman's people, not Newman himself, were upset by all the Redford close-ups and worried Redford would steal the movie.
Catherine Ross was in The Graduate, the biggest movie of the year before, then in this, the biggest movie of its year, and was in pole position as the good-looking actress of choice, but did not want that power, toned it back, did some stage work and the moment left; Anne Bancroft was only three or four years older than her in The Graduate.
Goldman was unsure whether the real Etta was a schoolteacher or a prostitute and, from how pretty and cleanly dressed she was in photos, chose to believe schoolteacher, though the historical record is fuzzy; it would have been unusual for a woman of about 24 to be unmarried.
Ally McGraw (as transcribed) of Love Story was the market correction, though Ross, the better actress, could have corrected her back and instead gave up, with Mia Farrow and Ellen Burstyn the other big actresses; research suggests Ross was difficult and disliked making movies; she met Sam Elliott, a card player with a very small role here, did not date him, and married him fifteen years later.
Warner Brothers wanted a box office star and Arnold Schwarzenegger was batted around at one point, which is weird for a variety of reasons, though a host jokes he could have pulled off the Laura Linney cheating scenes; both Warren Beatty and Kevin Costner were considered, and Beatty took it seriously enough that after deciding not to do it he brought Dave to Ivan Reitman, which is how Reitman got the movie.
Costner is interesting but one voice doesn't think it works; he had the most power of his career right around then and basically plays Bob Alexander in 13 Days (as transcribed), so he has some interest in the executive branch; Kevin Kline almost turned it down because he thought the character was too close to his Fish Called Wanda character, which none of the hosts can see.
Casting what-ifs are blown early: this was almost a Robin Williams movie, which is 90% likely a disaster and 10% likely a reined-in Dead Poets Society performance; Kevin Kline being such a good and subtle actor keeps the ridiculous premise from becoming a circus show of clown ideas, whereas Williams's big expressive face riding that pig would make you ask what ridiculous movie this is, and how could two people look like Robin Williams.
The painting; Coldplay's Sparks; Isla Fisher; Bradley Cooper as Sack Lodge; the Wilson and Vaughn banter; the soundtrack; the wealthy DC-area setting; Bradley Cooper shooting Vince Vaughn with birdshot months before Dick Cheney's hunting accident
The painting still really makes one host laugh, and Coldplay's Sparks might be the band's best song 15 years later and a perfect part of the movie; a host recalls hearing it in college and expecting a different kind of band, with Sparks here and Don't Panic in Garden State becoming part of those movies.
Isla Fisher has probably never been better; she did a karaoke version of this role in Tag this year, people thought she would be a huge movie star before she married Sasha Baron Cohen (as transcribed) and got sidetracked, and worst case she should have had a seven-year sitcom; the pronunciation of her first name is corrected.
Bradley Cooper as a preppy dick plays well against his later backstory: after Alias he worried about being typecast as a nice guy, and Sack Lodge is a Hall of Fame dick with no redeeming quality, talking about other women and sharing the private eye conversation with Trapster; if made in 2018 he would have a line about golfing with Don Jr.
It is hard to believe nobody knew Cooper would be a star; one host watched Alias religiously and found his best-friend role bland and one-note; he was only 30 here and graduated from Georgetown in 97, and unlike Vaughn and Wilson he took control of his career, from All About Steve, Valentine's Day and the A Team through Limitless, Place Beyond the Pines and Silver Linings, aiming to be Warren Beatty, Redford or Eastwood.
Limitless is when one host believed in Cooper, since a premise that stupid only works if you like the lead; he has withstood Aloha, Burnt, Joy and the barely released Serena, and a Burnt digression follows: one host's wife loves kitchen movies like Under the Tuscan Sun, Unfaithful and No Reservations, Cooper is good in Burnt even though the movie does not work, and Daniel Brühl is the maitre d'.
Cooper saved his career with voice acting: Rocket Raccoon in Guardians of the Galaxy without the green screen work Chris Pratt does, and the boyfriend's voice in 10 Cloverfield Lane; the Hangover sequels were his torn ACL, with Hangover 3 excruciating.
While researching A Star Is Born, a host read that Cooper talked to Clint Eastwood about directing while making Sniper and was told Clint did Play Misty for Me at 41; the hosts love the heat check of entering the Clint conversation, are all in on the directing career and the coming promo tour in a denim jacket, and note Clint is making The Mule.
Also aged well: the Wilson and Vaughn repartee; a pretty good soundtrack for a broad Hollywood comedy, with In the Summertime on the bicycles, Rod Stewart's Stay With Me and the Coldplay song as big set pieces; and the wealthy DC area in summertime, which was supposed to be Boston and Cape Cod around the Kennedy compound, though you cannot tell it was 130 degrees when they filmed.
A late addition: Bradley Cooper shooting Vince Vaughn in the backside with birdshot approximately eight months before Dick Cheney shot somebody in the face in a similar environment.
