Ebert's review is read as three and a half stars, calling it the rare war movie that thrills people while they watch and invites them to leave the theater discussing the issues.
The hosts doubt it sparked thoughtful conversations about nuclear sub captains; the joked takeaway is not to be a crazy, racist, war-happy submarine captain, and another takeaway was wanting to go right back in and see it again.

Most Rewatchable Scene

Final confrontation; first mutiny

In the discussion (22)

Approx. transcript time · 00:31:30Read transcript

Choosing is hard because the whole movie is rewatchable.
The first Hackman-Denzel meeting, where Hackman compares horses to high school girls, has the two feeling each other out; Denzel realizes he needs to keep his guard up with this guy.
The semi-confrontation after the kitchen fire and the missile drill is where the sparring really begins, with Ramsey's speech about the unified chain of command and not questioning each other in front of the crew.
Calling a missile drill during a fire is joked to be a Bill Simmons move, like a 7 a.m. text or an emergency pod after an earthquake; the reply is that sometimes you have to run the missile drill.
The Silver Surfer argument with Danny Nucci's sailor is called clearly a Tarantino pop-culture scene; a little dated and not fully understood, but enjoyable.
The blow-up where Denzel relieves Hackman is praised for its overlapping speeches; the hosts say Lieutenant Zimmer was named as an homage to Hans Zimmer.
Hackman is guessed at 5-11; camera tricks sometimes make him look taller than Denzel, which is joked to be a Top Gun habit of Tony Scott's.
Quick cuts show the crew paralyzed watching; on rewatch, Hunter starts questioning the captain in public as soon as the fire happens.
A 'coming up next' take argues Hunter was in the wrong: in the military chain of command you never question the lead dog with other people around, so he loses Hackman from that point.
A counter-question asks whether Ramsey deliberately draws out Hunter's defiance; Hunter keeps asking why, echoing the Clausewitz exchange.
Because Ramsey hired Hunter, an early scene showing Hunter was not his choice would explain the testing; the counterpoint is that time was short while Radchenko fueled his missiles.
The torpedo attack, with the sub hit, water coming in and depths called out, is a hacky but necessary submarine-movie beat; from around there the last hour plays nearly in real time.
The bilge-bay 'Seal the bay' scene has Rick Schroder really going for it, joked to be how he got NYPD Blue.
Viggo, very young and baby-faced, is great and pivotal, though his accent pops with little Dutch-like flourishes.
'You don't put on a condom unless you want to fuck' is called Chris's favorite line, prompting HR and WordPress jokes.
Other lines include the one about only two sides to a mutiny, and Denzel gets several yearbook-ready lines.
Matt Craven and Rocky Carroll are perfect as the officers running envelopes down hallways; Carroll was known as Joey from Rock on Fox, and both later spent years on NCIS.
Hackman taking the boat back includes Denzel's extra second-and-a-half stare at Viggo.
One pick is the final confrontation: Hackman hitting him, the 'God help you if you're wrong' exchange, the three-minute wait for the radio, and the final message reveal, called seven unassailable minutes.
Another pick is the first mutiny, for the overlapping dialogue while the missiles are fueled; the stallions scene is acknowledged as the famous one.
A further voice agrees the first mutiny is the favorite part and the turning point, starting when Ramsey yells 'Mr. Hunter, I've made a decision... shut the fuck up!'
The line is joked about for Zoom meetings; NBA owners most likely to yell it include Tillman Fertitta and Mickey Arison.

What’s Aged the Best?

Sub-descent montage; Denzel's lines; real-time final hour; Jason Robards cameo; EAMs; opening and closing title cards

In the discussion (10)

Approx. transcript time · 00:47:15Read transcript

Tony Scott makes a two-minute montage of the sub slowly descending riveting with Hans Zimmer's score; only Spielberg or McTiernan, who made Hunt for Red October, might have pulled it off.
Denzel's line 'in the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself' is one of about seven such Denzel lines.
Viggo lights a cigarette when he decides to refuse the launch, and many sailors smoke Marlboro Reds underwater with no smoking section.
George Dzundza's IMDb highlights include The Deer Hunter, No Way Out, Basic Instinct and Law & Order; a lowlight is co-leading the 1985 TV movie The Rape of Richard Beck with Richard Crenna.
The Richard Beck plot summary is read, a 35th-anniversary episode is joked about, and early-80s cocaine is blamed for bad decisions.
The last 60 minutes play basically in real time, with Weps doing the clock; it may have inspired Snake Eyes.
Jason Robards, uncredited, comes flying in off the top rope for about 90 seconds.
The EAMs are cinematically great, with messages three people must read aloud and confirm and run down the hallway; it is also disturbing that nuclear war hinged on them.
The opening title card names the three most powerful people in the world, including a nuclear submarine captain, and the closing card says captains lost launch authority on January 1, 1996; Bruckheimer pitches the card almost word for word in a featurette.
Don Simpson is joked to be number four; David Stern would belong in the top three.

What’s Aged the Worst?

Small-screen viewing; Lillo Brancato as the radio fixer; Ramsey's gun threats; Ramsey's late overt racism

In the discussion (6)

Approx. transcript time · 00:53:23Read transcript

It was an awesome big-screen movie that is not the same on any TV; a planned anniversary theater re-release was lost when the pandemic hit, and Jurassic Park is similar.
A Tarantino-hosted Tony Scott marathon at the New Beverly is proposed for when theaters reopen.
The man fixing the radio to save the world is the Bronx Tale actor Lillo Brancato, whose real life did not work out as well.
Hackman pulling a gun on Viggo, then switching targets once he remembers only Viggo knows the code, never sat right and should have come up in the report with Robards; the others seem fine with it.
Hackman going overtly racist at the tail end is questioned as a choice, especially with Black sailors aboard.
Gandolfini's Dougherty is probably egging him on; Gandolfini plays a greased-up scumbag in every Tony Scott movie, like a wrestling character.

Casting What-Ifs

Val Kilmer; Al Pacino as Ramsey; Brad Pitt as Hunter; Warren Beatty; Tommy Lee Jones as Ramsey; Tom Cruise as Hunter

In the discussion (7)

Approx. transcript time · 00:55:59Read transcript

The hosts say Simpson and Bruckheimer offered Val Kilmer a headlining role, which he declined and later regretted; the role was never specified.
Guesses for the Kilmer role are Viggo's part or Hunter, possibly turned down for not being big enough; he could have played every part except Hackman's.
Al Pacino was originally offered Captain Ramsey and would have dialed it up to 90 in his Vincent Hanna zone.
Brad Pitt wanted to play Hunter when Pacino might be Ramsey, then passed when Pacino dropped out.
Warren Beatty was courted, another case of Beatty flirting with a part for a year before declining, as with the Burt Reynolds part in Boogie Nights, which is called the bigger miss; he would not have fit this movie.
Tommy Lee Jones passed on the Hackman part; he would have worked, having done something similar in Under Siege.
Per a Don Simpson interview at Santa Anita, Pitt and Tom Cruise were considered for Denzel's part; Cruise was the first call for such parts for a decade, but it worked out perfectly.

The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award

Danny Nucci

In the discussion (4)

Approx. transcript time · 00:59:48Read transcript

Renaming the award after Stephen Tobolowski's Ned Ryerson, raised on the Groundhog Day pod, gets support; a George Dzundza Award is also floated, with a pronunciation debate.
Matt Craven as Zimmer is offered, though NCIS may have lifted him past that-guy status.
Danny Nucci, the Silver Surfer guy, is called a better pick: he has been in a lot but is known only as Danny.
Ryan Phillippe's first role flashes by, but the pick here is Nucci. — Chris Ryan

The Ruffalo / Hanna / Rubinek / Partridge Overacting Award

James Gandolfini

In the discussion (5)

Approx. transcript time · 01:01:02Read transcript

The award name now sounds like it is about the best ass in the cast, so a new name tied to 'coffee with McCauley a half hour ago' is floated for future use.
Gandolfini dialed it up the most, including his 'Fuck the XO' line.
Rick Schroder, doused with water, clearly makes the most of closing the hatch.
Gandolfini is 'a gorgeous porchetta' hamming it up; his pre-Sopranos parts are fun, and it was clear from True Romance that something would happen for him.
Schroder is joked to be about to yell 'Wake up, Chip!'

The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance

James Gandolfini

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 01:01:51Read transcript

Gandolfini is also this participant's Dion Waiters pick.
The group agrees on Dion Waiters for Gandolfini.

Brandy Booth Award for Best Performance by a Pet

Gene Hackman's Jack Russell terrier: 5, 7 and 8 chewies

In the discussion (7)

Approx. transcript time · 01:02:55Read transcript

A new, movie-appropriate category is announced about 130 episodes in: best performance by a pet, named the Brandy rating after Brad Pitt's dog in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, scored 1 to 10 chewies.
Gene Hackman's Jack Russell terrier gets five chewies. — Chris Ryan
Seven chewies: a Jack Russell is an odd choice for a nuke commander, the dog pisses in the hallways, and playing with it right after a mutiny suggests he has lost it.
Eight chewies: the funniest moment is the third reaction shot after the final EAM, the dog barking excitedly in Ramsey's quarters.
The baseline is 'you know it when you see it', and it should be a pet; the Godfather horse qualifies because it was technically a pet. — Bill Simmons
With Pacino as Ramsey, the dog would have gotten a scene of him complaining about dog piss in the hallway.
The groundhog from Groundhog Day qualifies at about five chewies, higher if a biting scene had been shown. — Bill Simmons

Recasting Couch

Young 1990s up-and-comer as Zimmer; Cuba Gooding added to the crew

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 01:06:43Read transcript

With apologies to Matt Craven, his role could have gone to a young 90s up-and-comer such as Brad Pitt or Mark Wahlberg; really anybody, even Leo, Affleck or Damon.
Robert Downey Jr., in his lost years right after Natural Born Killers, is floated, perhaps a little old for Hunter; it would have been a cool moment for him.
Not having Cuba Gooding in the sub as semi-comic relief is called a huge miss.

Half-Assed Internet Research

Tarantino's scenes; Denzel-Tarantino set confrontation; Towne's phone-dictated rewrite; Navy withdrawal; Tony Scott's mutiny-training response

In the discussion (8)

Approx. transcript time · 01:08:08Read transcript

Tarantino's scenes are the Silver Surfer scene, the Star Trek Captain Kirk exchange, and the dialogue about the submarine films The Enemy Below and Run Silent, Run Deep.
The hosts cite a 1995 Premiere article saying Denzel confronted Tarantino on set about the N-word in his films and refused to take it private; per GQ, Denzel later apologized and called him a fine artist, and Denzel's daughter was a PA on Django.
Robert Towne got an urgent call from Simpson and Bruckheimer to rewrite the nature-of-war scene and dictated it over the phone while they recorded.
Dinner for Five with David Milch and Jon Favreau is recommended for Milch's story of a Simpson rewrite call; the 7 a.m. texts are called far milder than Simpson.
High Concept, a biography of Simpson, is recommended as salacious and fascinating.
The hosts say Robert Mueller as FBI director often quoted Hackman's 'we're here to preserve democracy, not to practice it'.
After a two-year process, including videotaping the lieutenant commander Denzel based his performance on, the U.S. Navy pulled out once it learned the script involved a mutiny.
The Navy had backed Top Gun; Tony Scott responded that if mutiny never happens, why is there mutiny training for naval officers.

Apex Mountain

Jack Russell terriers

In the discussion (9)

Approx. transcript time · 01:12:41Read transcript

The case for this as Tony Scott's Apex: a career crossroads, a hit, and the start of the Denzel relationship; but it is not called his best film.
Favorite Tony Scott films are Last Boy Scout, True Romance and Crimson Tide in a row, with True Romance as the Apex.
A counterargument says this is the Apex because The Fan, his next film, only got greenlit because he was Tony Scott.
With Frasier's Jack Russell also around in 1995, the preference is this Jack Russell, in a more consequential situation. — Chris Ryan
It could be the Apex for mutinies on subs.
For best submarine movie it is this or Hunt for Red October; Das Boot, older submarine films and K-19 come up, with K-19 called bad.
This one performed better and feels more modern, but Hunt for Red October's outside plot and its Ramius versus Jack Ryan material are richer; it is called neck and neck.
Jason Robards cameos come up, with Enemy of the State mentioned and a preference voiced for this one.
The movie is really nobody's Apex: good people passing through, not peaking.

Picking Nits

Dog on the sub; Ramsey's racism; Steve Zahn's job; cable-news briefings; one-cassette playlist

In the discussion (5)

Approx. transcript time · 01:16:59Read transcript

The dog's bathroom situation on the sub is a nit: someone should walk it or there should be astroturf, rather than piss in the hallway next to smokers.
Hackman going full racist was never fully understood.
Steve Zahn's job is unclear: smoking, listening to the radio, and failing to close a hatch.
The officers get too much information from cable news, even for 1995, including the briefing.
The only cassette aboard is Martha and the Vandellas' 'Nowhere to Run', played over and over.

The Neil McCauley “A Book about Metals” Award for Best Line from the Movie

"Nuclear holocaust"

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 01:18:58Read transcript

The quotes are said to be covered already.
Denzel's specific pronunciation of 'nuclear holocaust' is cited as an extra.

Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake

No affirmative selection

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 01:19:34Read transcript

It could work like 24, each episode a set amount of time on the sub, filling in Steve Zahn's character.
A second voice votes no: this is the perfect two-hour movie.

Probably Unanswerable Questions

Radchenko's next move; the too-easy final reconciliation

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 01:19:56Read transcript

Radchenko's next move is joked to be buying a Premier League team such as West Ham, or the New Jersey Nets and making the Garnett trade.
Half nitpick: the friendly final scene fails after Ramsey's racist horse remark in front of crew and nearly starting a nuclear war; it could have been cut.

Who Won the Movie?

Denzel Washington

In the discussion (6)

Approx. transcript time · 01:22:15Read transcript

Washington, who establishes himself as a movie star at another level, still discussed 25 years later.
A case for Hackman or Scott is considered, but it has to be Denzel supercharging into mainstream stardom.
Don Simpson and Denzel are joked about as a tie.
Denzel as well, since his part was a little harder. — Bill Simmons
Without A Few Good Men there is a case for Hackman, but his performance carries Jessup fumes, and Nicholson did it better with a higher ceiling.
Al Pacino is joked to have won this podcast.

Podcast choices

Speaker not identified: Denzel Washington
Speaker not identified: Denzel Washington
Bill Simmons: Denzel Washington

More from the conversation

After a State Farm ad and a Ringer network plug, the 1995 trailer serves as the cold open.

Approx. transcript time · 00:00:59Read transcript

The episode marks the film's 25th anniversary: Denzel Washington, Gene Hackman and Tony Scott at the tail end of Simpson-Bruckheimer; a buzzy hit that made a lot of money.

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It is called one of the most enjoyable movies of the last half century and among the most fun rewatches the show could do.

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It may lead the clubhouse for movies to restart as soon as they end; despite many screenwriters, the script is called perfect.

Approx. transcript time · 00:02:26Read transcript

It could come out now with no modern advancement affecting it; Tony Scott raised the degree of difficulty by making a sub exciting.

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An all-star roster of screenwriters punched up scenes, called the apex of Robert Towne; the hosts wonder where William Goldman was.

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The only female character is Denzel's wife, who only mouths her line; it fails the Bechdel test with over 100 actors, all men.

Approx. transcript time · 00:04:05Read transcript

Tony Scott, or Michael Mann, leads in movies covered by the show; this is Scott at the peak of his powers.

Approx. transcript time · 00:04:46Read transcript

The movie keeps viewers on the edge of their seats even after 25 viewings; every event follows from the one before, like Hunter and Weps meeting at a birthday party, making it Chekhov's every line.

Approx. transcript time · 00:05:06Read transcript

In a Rewatchables awards show, Tony Scott would win the first director award.

Approx. transcript time · 00:06:25Read transcript

Denzel and Tony Scott are called an underrated team; this is the first of four films (with Man on Fire, Deja Vu and Unstoppable), each with a different Denzel.

Approx. transcript time · 00:06:41Read transcript

Rewriters included Tarantino, Robert Towne and Steve Zaillian; the credited screenwriter is Michael Schiffer (ASR Schroeder).

Approx. transcript time · 00:06:55Read transcript

Denzel's career is traced from Malcolm X and The Pelican Brief, with its love scene cut, and Philadelphia, to a run from Crimson Tide through Remember the Titans and Training Day.

Approx. transcript time · 00:07:45Read transcript

This is described as Denzel's first pursuit of mainstream stardom and the start of phase two: a two-star action thriller, a hallmark of late Hackman, with Tony Scott as his action-side collaborator.

Approx. transcript time · 00:08:52Read transcript

It is the movie you do to show you are the next Hackman; the hosts wonder what notes Simpson and Bruckheimer gave on how racist Ramsey could be, noting Denzel never physically harms him.

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By 1995 Denzel had beaten out Wesley Snipes and it was him and Hanks at the top; Cruise, the third, would have played Hunter brasher, as in A Few Good Men.

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It is called one of the best Denzel performances; both leads do a lot with their faces and little dialogue.

Approx. transcript time · 00:12:37Read transcript

The first hour is called one of the best workplace movies, with the officers' mess Clausewitz talk; things go bad right after the first dinner, with unspoken racial tension.

Approx. transcript time · 00:13:15Read transcript

During the final wait for the radio, Denzel, hit in the face twice, plays his anger subtly.

Approx. transcript time · 00:14:25Read transcript

The film feels like a 1950s Caine Mutiny-style picture or stage play and resembles Run Silent, Run Deep with Clark Gable and Burt Lancaster.

Approx. transcript time · 00:15:13Read transcript

It is rare to get two two-time Oscar winners facing off, and the Robards scene has three; Jon Voight's Coming Home Oscar is debated.

Approx. transcript time · 00:15:43Read transcript

It is likened to the Heat diner scene on a submarine; Tony Scott's style is shifting toward red light, smoke and stairwells, pointing to Enemy of the State and Man on Fire.

Approx. transcript time · 00:17:00Read transcript

A 1990s era of two-star pairings (Hanks and Denzel, Denzel and Julia Roberts, Cruise and Pitt) faded; there are no current equivalents.

Approx. transcript time · 00:17:54Read transcript

At the 1996 Oscars Braveheart won; the show voted against covering it; the film was shut out in an Oscar year outlasted by Seven, Heat, Casino, Clueless and Toy Story.

Approx. transcript time · 00:19:14Read transcript

The Oscars do not take movies like this seriously, and Tony Scott does not make Oscar winners; an earlier Oscar-nomination claim is recanted.

Approx. transcript time · 00:21:25Read transcript

Denzel reportedly named Gene Hackman, Angelina Jolie and Dakota Fanning among the most talented actors he worked with, none from his generation; the hosts read it as competitiveness.

Approx. transcript time · 00:22:05Read transcript

Denzel said he wanted to joust with a master; Hackman, private and never transforming through accents or prosthetics, is under-mentioned among the greats, as an Owen Wilson interview noted.

Approx. transcript time · 00:22:58Read transcript

The Wikipedia opener and Cuban missile crisis parallel are read as a perfect pitch.

Approx. transcript time · 00:25:38Read transcript

The supporting cast is praised: Gandolfini, early Viggo, Daniel von Bargen as Radchenko, George Dzundza, Lillo Brancato Jr., Rick Schroder and Steve Zahn.

Approx. transcript time · 00:26:40Read transcript

Hans Zimmer's score, said to have won a Grammy, is reused in sports broadcasts; the movie made $157.3 million per the hosts.

Approx. transcript time · 00:27:23Read transcript

Asked how a mutiny against Sean would go, the answer is going to Mallory first and being rebuffed.

Approx. transcript time · 00:28:50Read transcript

Mutiny is called the best movie premise; this is closely modeled on Mutiny on the Bounty; sports versions are imagined, like Josh McDaniels against Bill Belichick.

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Host-read promos for Behind the Billions and TV Concierge run before the categories.

Approx. transcript time · 00:30:36Read transcript

An outdoor Washington, D.C. shot is expected at the end, but the final scene is at Pearl Harbor.

Approx. transcript time · 01:21:51Read transcript

Pacino-as-Ramsey impressions and the Clausewitz line close the discussion.

Approx. transcript time · 01:23:47Read transcript

The next episode is Draft Day with Mallory Rubin.

Approx. transcript time · 01:24:41Read transcript