The theme of wealth as an incurable pox; the narrated asides; the idea that not having wealth is also unacceptable; the soundtrack (disputed); the unreliable narration and fourth-wall breaking; Margot Robbie
The serious opener: the theme of wealth as an incurable pox that destroys life from the inside out, or at least that being motivated only by money is aging well.
The asides age best: the man who married the girl they had all had their way with and then killed himself; Brad's heart attack at 35, just like Mozart; the financial explanations Jordan yada-yadas because you don't give a shit, which recalls the way Trump talks, with a bragging flourish at the end telling you that you are too stupid to need to know, an attitude that has clearly resonated.
Related is the idea that not having wealth is also unacceptable, seen when Kyle Chandler sits on the subway at the end after getting his man; Scorsese and DiCaprio are wealthy and know life is easier with money, so the theme is how you get it and whether you are happy with what you chose, more nuanced than these guys suck.
The film feeds the appetite for lots of characters and actors; Favreau is good at these side roles; the investigation took ten years and Belfort could have just paid a fine and stepped down from Stratton Oakmont, the Favreau and Reiner scene where he tells them what they want to hear while clearly not caring, and when a rich man goes to prison he does not really go to prison.
The last scenes with Robbie's character are played starker to show how evil he is, he beats up his wife, and he still gets white-collar jail, tennis and speaking fees; there is an amazing dissonance between Belfort being all about this movie, even cropping up in the cameo, and the conclusion portraying him as an awful violent person.
What is real is debated since he has denied things; Belfort and the ex-wife both live in Manhattan Beach, where a host jogged past his house; the fines he was supposed to pay are debatable; the ending may be a way to remind you this guy did awful shit, whereas the international flight where he wakes up seatbelted is played as a carnival montage; the end is the crash, with a stock metaphor about risk, bad decisions and hurting people, precise while feeling loose.
The soundtrack is written down as aging best but the dissenter, named on air, holds that it never aged for him; the unreliable narrator and talking-to-camera device, usually considered a crutch, is essential here to be inside his brain, like Rounders without Matt Damon; The Office comparison is floated and doubted; the Lamborghini and the head-on-the-Expressway sell of the rule-breaking early is impressive writing.
'Did you guys see that?' after the plane crash brings the audience in and questions his perception without making a show of it, and the film moves on immediately.
Margot Robbie's discovery and where she now sits in the Hollywood firmament; the 'we're not going to be friends' line puts her in control of the courtship; she handles emotional desperation and goes toe to toe, 'who are you, a fucking owl'; the Venice fight with the water thrown in his face while he shimmies about his body is forgotten for the scene category, and the 'stop flexing your muscles' clip is played.
The tryout story: an unknown reading with DiCaprio, told to kiss him after the screaming, she slapped him and screamed fuck you instead, and Scorsese's reaction was that's the one; she wanted to take a risk, though the story may not be true.
Apex Mountain is defined, with Craig asked to correct it, as the point of most objective power in a career, not a personal favorite, given the context of the movie and the movie itself; all four stars and Nancy Meyers are to be assessed.
Cameron Diaz is a firm no: 2006 is the very beginning of her slowing down, her peak being the plateau from There's Something About Mary in 1998 through Charlie's Angels and Shrek in 2001, before Vanilla Sky and Gangs of New York; on this press tour she described going movie to movie without stopping, and she has since retired from acting.
Jack Black is argued as the one yes: this follows School of Rock in 2003, King Kong and Tenacious D, and he peters off afterward into voice work and the Goosebumps movies; another host says his apex is School of Rock, the one movie associated with him, and the panel settles on the 2002 to 2006 run as peak Jack Black.
Kate Winslet is on the rise rather than at her apex: she has had many peaks, Titanic catapulted her, nobody thinks The Holiday is her best work, and she won her Oscar in 2008, after this, for The Reader, called a terrible movie, the same year as Revolutionary Road.
Jude Law's apex of hotness is debated between this movie, as rich, handsome, jazz-loving dad Graham Simpkins, and The Talented Mr. Ripley in a rowboat in Italy wearing linens; his career apex is Ripley, with an Oscar nomination, after which it was a gradual decline through Closer, Cold Mountain and I Heart Huckabees without ever carrying a movie, Alfie being a non-hit during the Sienna Miller scandal.
An argument that Jude Law is in his apex now, doing whatever he wants in The Young Pope, the Harry Potter spinoff and Marvel movies, is heard, but for actual power and hotness it is Talented Mr. Ripley, which should get its own episode at 20 years old this December.
Nancy Meyers's apex is not this but likely Something's Gotta Give, a critical breakthrough with Keaton, Jack Nicholson and Keanu Reeves in 2003 when studio comedies still made money, plus Frances McDormand and Jon Favreau in a really good cast; Home Again is her daughter's movie that she produced; so the only possible apex here, and probably not even, is Jack Black.
Tom Hanks was offered Andy but could not accept because of Forrest Gump; the panel prefers Tim Robbins because the role became inseparable from him.
Kevin Costner was offered Andy and is considered a credible alternate, although the panel thinks Robbins better preserves doubt about Andy.
Tom Cruise attended table readings but declined over the director's inexperience; the panel thinks his intensity would distort Andy.
Brad Pitt was intended for Tommy before Thelma & Louise created other opportunities; the panel thinks his presence would make Tommy disproportionately prominent.
Young Gandolfini: he is basically auditioning for Tony Soprano, and this and his Get Shorty role (transcribed 'bare') are the two poles of that character, sweet, charming, evil, menacing and violent; the film was one of the first DVDs a host bought, so he was always the guy from this movie.
Floyd, who gives the directions down Beachwood to the Beverly Ambassador, was an A++ in the nineties and the DVD era, a spirit animal for anyone getting baked at two in the morning; the whole idea of Pineapple Express came from Judd Apatow and company loving Floyd and asking what would have happened if he chased the Italians.
Unlike Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder working to go viral, Pitt just lies on the couch with a couple of improv lines; the Floyd stuff is largely improvised, as are Hopper's eggplant and Walken's cantaloupe lines; Floyd is the most important character because he gets everyone together for the shootout, and 'don't condescend me' is a favorite line.
Brad Pitt has an alternate path as one of the great character actors, fifteen non-essential but memorable parts up through Burn After Reading, but he was so handsome he had to be a leading man; Seven is a character he put thought into before material started being created for him; the Tarantino relationship continues through Inglourious Bastards and the coming Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
Dennis Hopper is so likable that even the Speed villain was hard to root against; the Clarence-Clifford scene is economical writing, 'you're just like your mother', three years apart, a recovering alcoholic who only has a Seven Up, telling you why Clarence would throw it all away; two lines are lifted, 'you're just like your mother' from Hopper's own line in Rumblefish and the beer line from The Last Picture Show.
Pre-internet, movie quotes and pulling from the past mattered more; a host's column threw in movie lines because that is how he and his friends connected, and Twitter gifs have given it a renaissance.
Sizemore and Penn together are the twelve-episode Fox cop show we never got; the hosts saw a Reitman live read at the Ace Hotel with Slater and Arquette, the Duplass brothers as the cops, J.K. Simmons as the estranged father, Kevin Pollack as Walken's part, Jon Favreau as Gandolfini's, Keegan-Michael Key and Paul Scheer as Drexel and Elliot Blitzer, May Whitman in several parts and Jason Segel as Floyd.
Coming Home in a Body Bag is funny right on the heels of forty Vietnam movies; Saul Rubinek's Lee Donowitz as Joel Silver, Bronson Pinchot as his assistant, Boris the bodyguard who hates cops, and Dick Ritchie constantly asking whether the producer knows he is an actor; Donowitz is one of a host's favorite movie characters, saved for the Dion Waiters argument.
The Hans Zimmer score is distinct and gives the movie levity; according to a host it is based on a composition from the 1500s by Carl Orff that Terrence Malick used in Badlands, which Zimmer redoes as an homage, and Arquette's opening voiceover mimics the Badlands voiceover; the film pulls the best parts of other things.
Asked for a single best out of all of it, one goes with the way it looks, the peak of Tony Scott's neon vision of urban America; another is still responding to the dialogue, over the top and offensive on purpose because it is pulp; a third says Gandolfini, like watching Michael Jordan at North Carolina.
The Public Garden bench is now a Robin Williams memorial; a gay sex scene was written into the script to test whether anyone read it; Williams insisted on the L Street bar and ad-libbed the wife story and 'Son of a bitch, he stole my line'; Sean was based on Damon's mother and Affleck's father; Gus Van Sant painted the painting in Sean's office; Skylar was based on Damon's Harvard ex; Damon and Minnie Driver dated through the shoot and the Oscars; Terrence Malick suggested the ending
The Boston Public Garden park bench where 3,000 people watched the scene is now a memorial to Robin Williams, after people put flowers there when he died; one host lived for ten years a six-minute walk from Bunker Hill Community College, where Sean taught.
For a while the screenplay contained a gay sex scene between Will and Sean in his office, written to see if anybody was actually reading the script during the year Castle Rock would not buy it and they feared it had become poison; nobody noticed until Harvey Weinstein, who told them to get rid of it.
Robin Williams insisted on the L Street bar after being mobbed scouting it and loving the energy, though his scene was not filmed there; he ad-libbed the story about his wife farting, which is why Matt Damon laughed so hard, and son of a bitch, he stole my line, which was supposed to be him reading the note and nodding; Williams was a genius with a complicated reputation because of bad movies.
Robin Williams's character was based on a mix of Damon's mom and Affleck's dad; Gus Van Sant painted the painting in Sean's office; Skyler is based on Damon's ex-girlfriend from Harvard; Damon and Minnie Driver dated from halfway through the movie through the Oscars and had a bad breakup two months later, he apparently dumping her; the hosts decline to discuss the two adjudicating each other on Twitter.
One host's wife called Minnie Driver bad, the reason the movie has not aged as well, and did not believe the relationship; the hosts disagree and think she is really good, though she rightfully did not become the huge star people expected; another host's wife came in for the middle and said the two have no chemistry even after hearing they dated a year in real life.
The hosts feel they are in love at that table; on a very small sample size women may see no chemistry where men do; the knick-knack store googly glasses moment, the Magic 8 ball scene with her NBA jokes, the organic chemistry scene and the piano speech all argue they are in love or amazing performers; she has not been in many movies, unlike a Gwyneth Paltrow with a 20-year history that would color it; one host claims she won the Oscar for this (she was in fact nominated), as evidence people felt that way at the time.
One more research bit: in the original script Will and Skylar leave town together; through a friend of the Affleck family Ben and Matt met Terrence Malick, who had read it and said Will should chase her, she is gone and he has to go find her, so Malick is the reason for the ending, one of many lucky notes and ad-libs that pushed the movie up levels.
Why did Rob Reiner, William Goldman and Terrence Malick want to help two unfamous guys when people struggle in Hollywood for 25 years, and this is the only movie Harvey Weinstein did not chop up as he saw fit; they had some success already, unlike Jon Favreau and Vince Vaughn, though Vaughn was in Rudy as Jamie O'Hara; the only guess is that people sensed they were headed somewhere and wanted to be thanked.
