Before the score is read, the guess is that Ebert liked it.
The review is read as three out of four stars, calling it not a terribly original idea, yet sweet, funny, and observant.
The "not a terribly original idea" line is rejected: the movie is called totally original, and the question is asked what it stole from.

Most Rewatchable Scene

Drive to Vegas; blackjack and big-winner stretch; par-three golf; NHL video-game scene; Heather Graham swing dance; late-night diner; Nikki answering-machine calls

In the discussion (19)

Approx. transcript time · 00:34:19Read transcript

The drive to Vegas is a pick: he is talked into going, puts on a suit while the other holds the wheel, they scream Vegas, then the next cut is them driving sadly down the highway.
The whole blackjack scene is a pick, ending with the devastated Mike and Trent insisting he is the big winner.
That roughly 11-minute stretch runs into breakfast, with the pancakes, the age of enlightenment, and "I'm going to pull a Fredo", humming for 15 solid minutes.
Details praised: counting the money before handing it over, an amateur move; the three black chips back; the double down loss you could see coming; the look on Favreau's face.
Is it Mike's first Vegas trip? They seem secretly losers; Trent, supposedly worldly, cannot gamble, and doubling down on 11 is his only move.
The Los Feliz par-three scene is a pick: not mentioning her like not talking to a pitcher mid no-hitter, and "get there" on a putt six feet short, still funny 150 times later.
The par three looks exactly the same, down to the booth attendant, and captures struggling actors with nothing to do; opening a round there with an eight or nine is relatable.
Ron Livingston is good delivering the no-hitter line.
The NHL video-game scene is called perhaps the greatest video-game scene in movie history; The Wizard is raised, but this is the first to integrate guys playing a sports game so seamlessly.
Picking Roenick was essential because he was a god in that game; Vaughn is said to be a huge Blackhawks fan.
"The Kings are a finesse team", making Gretzky's head bleed, and messing with Mikey over the delivery guy are all called lights out.
A participant who was an only child identifies with Sue: undefeated against the computer, then blaming the controller when friends beat him.
Per the Grantland oral history as told on air, they could not make Gretzky's head bleed and had Vaughn come over during editing to keep trying until they captured it.
The Heather Graham scene is a pick: he finally uses Trent's lessons, they swing dance, and cutaways show a crying, happy Trent and Sue; Big Bad Voodoo Daddy are said to have been asked on a whim and later played a Super Bowl halftime show.
The late-night diner scene is a pick, with "our little boy's all grown up" and Trent jumping on the table, said to be ad-libbed.
The whole Nikki run, from the bar and the number to calling her machine repeatedly, is painful but amazingly well done.
Watching with a daughter who had never seen it, attention on the TV was about 80-20 versus the usual 50-50 with her phone; she was confused by the answering-machine calls.
Maybe the party-to-party bouncing, from the Dresden to Marty and Elaine and the talk of not getting a pilot, felt like a window into an unknown world.
The whole movie is rewatchable; for one participant the video-game scene is the favorite.

Opening credits; Vaughn and Favreau careers; This Place Is Dead Anyway guy; Vegas baby Vegas; Mikey-as-loser jokes; PG-13 line; Marty and Elaine; party-to-party convoys; diner hangouts; music; Vaughn-Favreau dynamic; Doug Liman; Ron Livingston and Heather Graham casting

In the discussion (15)

Approx. transcript time · 00:46:06Read transcript

The opening credits and their pictures of LA.
The careers of Vaughn and Favreau, which in 2003 might have seemed stuck after a grand slam out of the gate.
The "this place is dead anyway" guy, played by Alex Desert, says it twice when the place is not dead; nobody is paying attention to them.
"Vegas baby Vegas" was first heard here and reused liberally in columns.
The film establishes Mikey as a loser: Lisa is a Dorothy at the MGM Grand, the "not in Kansas anymore" line gets dead silence, and the comedian is the least funny guy.
The PG-13 movie line.
Marty and Elaine look exactly the same at the Dresden years later; one host saw them play midweek last fall and jokes they may be alien life forms.
Everyone driving in their own car in a convoy from party to party, as LA was until about 2014-15.
Hanging out in diners, a top-five hangout location; late coffee and pancakes are missed.
A college diner near Holy Cross called the Heritage, where a friend always ordered the Heritage; the 101 diner near the office is the diner in the movie; diners are a lifestyle on Long Island.
The hosts say diners have taken a big hit with COVID and many in LA have gone down.
The music has aged nicely.
The Vaughn-Favreau dynamic and 25-year careers, seen at an early stage here.
Doug Liman is called one of the 10 or 12 most successful directors of the last 30 years, a risk-taker good with actors, discussed on the Edge of Tomorrow podcast.
Ron Livingston and Heather Graham were caught right before fame; Livingston is likable and almost the moral conscience; Graham made this and Boogie Nights within about six months.

What’s Aged the Worst?

The Club; answering machines; Reservoir Dogs and Goodfellas homages; talking answering machine; Lorraine-as-bunny flourish; $300 blackjack stakes; Vegas drive timing

In the discussion (7)

Approx. transcript time · 00:51:39Read transcript

The Club on cars had a ten-year run and is no longer seen; a host kept one on as an unlocked ornament on a Ford Tempo and his mom's Corolla; a daughter's confusion at it is mentioned.
Answering machines no longer exist.
The Reservoir Dogs homage and Goodfellas kitchen homage were funny in 1996-97, but viewers under 30 may not get the jokes now.
Two whimsical flourishes stick out in an otherwise intimate film: the answering machine talking back to Mike, and Lorraine briefly appearing as a bunny, tied to Trent's bear-and-bunny speech.
Having been broke gambling in Vegas, a $300-a-hand table is no way; you go to the table with the bearded guy and the old lady hitting on 17.
The drive to Vegas: leaving at night on a six-to-seven hour drive, promising midnight but arriving around one or two, meeting the girls at 6 a.m., and a 9 a.m. audition apparently blown off.
One host claims a 3:15 record from LA to Vegas at 105 the whole way and is told not to try it.

Casting What-Ifs

Jason Priestley in Vaughn's role; Depp as Trent; Favreau as director

In the discussion (6)

Approx. transcript time · 00:56:33Read transcript

Liman is quoted from the oral history that Jason Priestley wanted Vaughn's part and could have raised a million and a half; Livingston is quoted that Vaughn was the last approved because they wanted a poster name.
Priestley, though loved on his TV show, could not have played the part; that would have been a disaster.
The hosts say distributors or money people wanted Depp to play Trent.
Favreau is said to have pushed hard to direct but, like the Good Will Hunting guys, knew starring was their break; he became co-producer and let Liman direct.
They may have butted heads, with Liman called famously difficult; Favreau's storyboard sketches in the oral history closely match the film, and Favreau has been diplomatic.
The hosts say Heather Graham would not be interviewed for the Grantland oral histories of Boogie Nights or Swingers.

The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award

Deena Martin

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 00:58:36Read transcript

One host says Patrick Van Horn as Sue was never in anything else again and feels Alex Desert has been in other things.
The vote goes to Dina Martin, also in Dazed and Confused: cute, a good actress, a likable vibe and great voice, and it is unclear why more did not happen for her in the 90s.
Alex Desert is liked a lot and called so money in PCU.

The Ruffalo / Hanna / Rubinek / Partridge Overacting Award

The guys Sue confronts in the parking lot

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 00:59:37Read transcript

No one seemed to overact or dial it up.
The award goes to the guys Sue confronts in the parking lot, the House of Pain crew; Scully is named.
Scully is identified as Rio, son of Taylor Hackford, director of Proof of Life, who is married to Helen Mirren.

The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance

Heather Graham

In the discussion (4)

Approx. transcript time · 01:01:00Read transcript

Nominees: the this-place-is-dead guy, Marty and Elaine, Heather Graham with basically two scenes, Sue in about five scenes, and Scully of House of Pain.
The vote goes to Heather Graham, in the movie under 10 minutes and lights out; the follow-up answer is also Heather Graham.
Her closing phone call throws rapid Diane Keaton-style bits at Favreau.
Brooke Langton is called overlooked, from Melrose Place and The Replacements; she looks like a woman alone at a bar who would blow you out of the water.

Recasting Couch

Casting left intact

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 01:02:39Read transcript

There are no parts to recast; they did a nice job across the board.
It is unknown what happened to Patrick Van Horn; research suggested he was not interested in this life.
For a recast at the level of Vaughn and Favreau, maybe Hamm as Sue, but Sue is still liked and good in the movie.

Half-Assed Internet Research

Script origins; table reads for buyers; music budget; real party scene; Vegas casinos; original ending; Sundance rejection and Miramax sale; Jaws theme and Spielberg; bear speech origin

In the discussion (12)

Approx. transcript time · 01:03:45Read transcript

Favreau is quoted that his dad gave him a screenwriting program and he wrote Swingers as an exercise, in two weeks.
The hosts say Livingston and Favreau became friends early in LA, Favreau knew Vaughn from Rudy, and Adam Scott lived downstairs and they all hung out.
The hosts say that after the script they held full-cast readings for potential buyers for a year, compared with Jason Reitman's readings.
Vaughn is quoted that buyers missed the universality: a breakup, coming of age, a journey with friends, wanting to meet someone.
The hosts say they paid most for Dean Martin, with half a million dollars in music licensing against a quarter-million production cost.
The party scene is said to have been a real party they threw for friends without explaining; Adam Scott and Mike White of Chuck and Buck were there.
The Vegas exterior is said to be the Stardust and the interior the Glitter Gulch; gulch never works.
Favreau is said to have taught Heather Graham to swing dance.
Favreau is quoted that the script ended on the Lorraine phone call and an unaffordable helicopter shot; Liman added the new ending, seeing a platonic love story between Mikey and Trent, and they scrambled to find a baby for it.
The hosts say Sundance rejected it; a screening at the Fairfax $2 theater for about 500 people, 490 friends and 10 possible buyers, crushed, and it sold to Miramax for $5 million, premiering at the Vista.
The hosts say they got the Jaws theme by sending scenes to Spielberg for approval, who asked about Vaughn and cast him in The Lost World.
Vaughn apparently really gave Favreau a version of the bear speech, and the story of leaving a girl behind is autobiographical for Favreau.

Apex Mountain

Brooke Langton; Sue; early underground Vegas; hockey video games; The Derby; The Dresden

In the discussion (8)

Approx. transcript time · 01:06:55Read transcript

A host says he gives the bear-and-bunny speech before every podcast; a Pacino tangent asks who Pacino would have played.
Doug Liman gets a no; his Apex is probably the first "Born" film, per the transcript.
Vaughn's Apex is Wedding Crashers, or Old School.
Favreau's Apex: we are living in it and he is in charge; Iron Man is named, since it became a monster and set up everything after.
Apex for Brooke Langton, on Melrose Place when this came out.
Apex definitely for Sue; absolutely for early underground Vegas before it became commercialized; yes for hockey video games.
Big Bad Voodoo Daddy's Apex is probably the Super Bowl halftime show; swing revival in general is probably at Apex here.
Yes for the Derby and the Dresden; Dina Martin is then named without a stated verdict.

Picking Nits

Skipped

In the discussion (1)

Approx. transcript time · 01:09:29Read transcript

Picking nits is announced, but the Vegas drive was already covered and no nitpicks are offered; a probably unanswerable question is held instead.

The Neil McCauley “A Book about Metals” Award for Best Line from the Movie

"Don't you see Boys in the Hood? Now one of us is going to get shot"; "You wake up every day and it hurts a little bit less"; "I'm going to pull a Fredo"; "The Kings are a finesse team"

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 01:09:45Read transcript

The parking-lot "Boys in the Hood" line is offered.
Trent's speech about waking up every day and it hurting a little bit less, until you almost miss the pain, is offered and called great.
"Pull a Fredo" and "the Kings are a finesse team" are added; there are a million quotes.

Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake

Entourage as the existing sequel

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 01:10:34Read transcript

One reaction is "please, God, no"; another is less allergic but asks who could match Vaughn's irrepressible character.
They already made this show, Entourage, the logical sequel; that is accepted as a very good point that makes one host unhappy.

Probably Unanswerable Questions

Most unrealistic part of the Mikey-Lorraine scene; Trent's after-school special story; whether Trent made it as an actor; why anyone hung out with Mike; salami for breakfast

In the discussion (8)

Approx. transcript time · 01:10:49Read transcript

Most unrealistic in the Mikey-Lorraine scene: Heather Graham alone at a bar with no one circling, both swing dancing at a high level, her asking him to dance and being attracted to him.
The swing dancing is the most unrealistic, like figure skating, when Mike cannot get dressed.
Trent's after-school special story is judged embellished, since the oral history says the dialogue was drawn from their lives.
Asked whether Trent made it as an actor, the answer is no; guesses include the par three, waiting tables at the 101, and bartending back in Chicago after two or three years.
When was Mike ever fun? He had to be talked into Vegas, cannot gamble, is an unfunny comedian, throws friends under the bus, is stuck on an ex dating Pierre, cannot golf, is somehow an accomplished swing dancer, and cannot seal the deal with Heather Graham.
Pushback: that makes the others monsters, since Mike is homesick and relatable; the glory-days answer is a joke about the set of Rudy, and neither Cameron nor Mike is someone you would actually hang out with, though both are great characters.
Ron Livingston's character carries the burden of Mike's problems.
Is Ron Livingston's character unwrapping a roll of salami for breakfast the most unrealistic thing? One host defends it and fetches soppressata from his kitchen on air.

How Long Do They Stay Together?

Six months; nine months; a year

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 01:11:53Read transcript

Estimates are nine months, six months, the over, and a year.
She is joked to meet the real Ben Affleck with Good Will Hunting coming out and dump Mikey.

Who Won the Movie?

Jon Favreau; Vince Vaughn

In the discussion (4)

Approx. transcript time · 01:17:19Read transcript

Favreau is picked; without this movie he might not have had a career, he made his own destiny by writing it and getting it made, and after The Mandalorian he is among the five most important people in Hollywood.
Vaughn is picked because he leaps off the screen at ten times the wattage of anyone else.
The question is split into who won the movie itself versus long-term success; long term is called easily Favreau, since Vaughn was too charismatic not to make it, while Favreau was 300 pounds in Rudy three years earlier with mixed acting results.
Co-winners have happened before; the framing is Vaughn as micro winner and Favreau as macro winner.

Podcast choices

Speaker not identified: Jon Favreau
Speaker not identified: Vince Vaughn

More from the conversation

The host apologizes for recent audio problems and says this is the second attempt to start recording.

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A movie-trailer cold open plays before the discussion.

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The film came out 24 years ago and is called an indie icon, one of the great LA movies, aged like a bottle of red wine.

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Favorite thing: the movie is like Ferris Bueller's Day Off if Cameron were the star, with Mikey as Cameron and Trent as Ferris; whether Heather Graham is Sloan is joked about.

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Favorite thing: "what if you and your friends mattered" enough to make a movie about them; a guerrilla shoot that found its audience on home video and cable, with three generational talents, and an ultimate hangout movie.

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It is called a true indie, unlike Pulp Fiction: using fridge light, filming in bars and at parties without telling people.

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The hosts say the film was not successful on release; one host missed it in theaters until a friend told him to rent it about three months later, and it became a cable rewatchable and one of the most quotable movies of the last 25 years.

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As a Miramax movie it is in dialogue with other indies, with Scorsese and Goodfellas talk and a Reservoir Dogs homage, aping what Tarantino had done.

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A host now lives near where it was shot; the later careers of Vaughn, Favreau and Liman are noted.

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The Vegas road trip and guys fighting over an NHL hockey video game had not been seen in a movie before; Apatow later tapped into the same male-bonding dynamics.

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A host who was 14 on release knew the film through its self-mythologizing screenplay story and aspired to video games and swing dancing in his 20s.

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Asked about bowling shirts, the answer is one or two; living in Boston, the LA world of driving everywhere and entering clubs through kitchens seemed far away.

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The film captures a mid-90s ecosystem of young actors in LA who knew Favreau and Vaughn; Adam Scott is said to have lived downstairs from Favreau.

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Two hosts moved to Los Feliz in 2012; the Dresden is still open and places on Franklin and the 101 look the same; the film is aspirational but the ceiling is low.

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A joke that they moved to LA expecting swing to come back; the film depicts dreams and humiliation, like not even getting a Goofy role at Disney World.

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Most young-actors-in-LA movies are bad; one host visited Canter's, the Dresden and the Derby soon after moving to LA at the end of 2002.

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The hosts say the film made under $5 million; a host used Swingers quotes in an ESPN year-end NFL quotes column and noted some sadness that Favreau and Vaughn had not matched it.

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Vaughn's late-90s roles and the Trent shadow, Favreau on Friends and a "Rocky Barsiano" movie (as transcribed), then both becoming massive successes; Made did not recapture the magic.

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Old School redefined Vaughn as the guy who used to be Double Down Trent; both wanted to be taken seriously in the late 90s; The Break-Up with Aniston raised his profile.

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Compared with Kicking and Screaming and Clerks, Swingers is big and mainstream, with movie-star gestures; Favreau is called closer to Spielberg than to Spike Lee or Tarantino.

Approx. transcript time · 00:17:52Read transcript

Vaughn gives a monster, one-of-a-kind performance.

Approx. transcript time · 00:19:35Read transcript

Redoing the 1996 supporting-actor Oscars as recalled on air, Vaughn could have taken the James Woods spot, whose heavy makeup role is mocked as old-voter bait.

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A 2003 column's reasons the film would last are revisited: struggling LA actors and Vegas, the obliterated-by-a-girlfriend phenomenon and male bonding, the retro swing craze (which died), and quotes (mostly died).

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The real theme is a guy who cannot get over his girlfriend while his best relationship is with Trent.

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Swingers is credited with helping launch the late-90s and 2000s Vegas renaissance.

Approx. transcript time · 00:22:47Read transcript

The Vegas scenes show broke losers at the Fremont, not high rollers; the film is called an underrated cringe-comedy Hall of Famer that mocks the Rat Pack ideal.

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Vegas memories: Treasure Island in the mid-90s, then Mandalay Bay, four guys to a room; a 1999 Vegas running diary was a host's most popular early piece; March Madness weekend became a madhouse.

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Suggested reasons Vegas boomed: sports betting, the strip being built up, and relative cheapness.

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Favreau is quoted that it built momentum on video; Liman is quoted that Buena Vista home video pushed it, including Blockbuster standees of Vaughn holding a drink.

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A former roommate took home a Blockbuster Halloween standee; a host would like to find the Swingers standee on eBay.

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Similar early-90s guy-group movies are named, including The Brothers McMullen, Sleep With Me and Bodies, Rest & Motion, but Swingers had more character and sincerity.

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Swingers and Kicking and Screaming are said to have aged by far the best of the era, while Clerks feels like a home movie.

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The hosts say Liman used spare film and, per the oral history, the 278-miles-to-Los-Angeles sign was shot without permits as police arrived.

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Much money went to music: Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Tony Bennett and Dean Martin, and 70s funk; spend the budget on music, as with Bittersweet Symphony in Cruel Intentions.

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Asked whether he was a Trent or a Mike, the answer is that he was each at points; the asker concludes he is a Trent given his hostility to Troy from Reality Bites and Kevin from St. Elmo's Fire.

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Tangent: Devil's Advocate is called almost an SNL sketch with Charlize going for an Oscar, and preferred to Two for the Money.

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The movie does not feel 24 years old; it is on HBO Max.

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Next week's episode is announced as Stand By Me.

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