Martin Lawrence is debated: one view says yes because of Martin and this hit, while others argue a second life with Life as a possible Apex, before conceding he never had as much juice as coming out of this film.
This was Club Hell's Apex Mountain; it never got better, and it sounds like a club Stefan would make up on SNL. — Bill Simmons
Is it the Apex for Miami movies? Miami is like Gene Hackman, always perfect, so the case is no. — Bill Simmons
A follow-up asks whether mid-90s Porsches are the Apex and answers not the Apex Mountain, then asks whether another hit buddy-cop movie came after; Rush Hour counts. — Bill Simmons
Without A Few Good Men there is a case for Hackman, but his performance carries Jessup fumes, and Nicholson did it better with a higher ceiling. — Bill Simmons
The dog's bathroom situation on the sub is a nit: someone should walk it or there should be astroturf, rather than piss in the hallway next to smokers. — Bill Simmons
Tarantino's scenes are the Silver Surfer scene, the Star Trek Captain Kirk exchange, and the dialogue about the submarine films The Enemy Below and Run Silent, Run Deep. — Bill Simmons
The hosts cite a 1995 Premiere article saying Denzel confronted Tarantino on set about the N-word in his films and refused to take it private; per GQ, Denzel later apologized and called him a fine artist, and Denzel's daughter was a PA on Django. — Bill Simmons
Robert Towne got an urgent call from Simpson and Bruckheimer to rewrite the nature-of-war scene and dictated it over the phone while they recorded. — Bill Simmons
Dinner for Five with David Milch and Jon Favreau is recommended for Milch's story of a Simpson rewrite call; the 7 a.m. texts are called far milder than Simpson. — Chris Ryan
High Concept, a biography of Simpson, is recommended as salacious and fascinating. — Bill Simmons
The hosts say Robert Mueller as FBI director often quoted Hackman's 'we're here to preserve democracy, not to practice it'. — Bill Simmons
After a two-year process, including videotaping the lieutenant commander Denzel based his performance on, the U.S. Navy pulled out once it learned the script involved a mutiny. — Bill Simmons
The Navy had backed Top Gun; Tony Scott responded that if mutiny never happens, why is there mutiny training for naval officers. — Bill Simmons
A new, movie-appropriate category is announced about 130 episodes in: best performance by a pet, named the Brandy rating after Brad Pitt's dog in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, scored 1 to 10 chewies. — Bill Simmons
Seven chewies: a Jack Russell is an odd choice for a nuke commander, the dog pisses in the hallways, and playing with it right after a mutiny suggests he has lost it. — Chris Ryan
Eight chewies: the funniest moment is the third reaction shot after the final EAM, the dog barking excitedly in Ramsey's quarters. — Sean Fennessey
The baseline is 'you know it when you see it', and it should be a pet; the Godfather horse qualifies because it was technically a pet. — Bill Simmons
With Pacino as Ramsey, the dog would have gotten a scene of him complaining about dog piss in the hallway. — Bill Simmons
The groundhog from Groundhog Day qualifies at about five chewies, higher if a biting scene had been shown. — Bill Simmons
The hosts say Simpson and Bruckheimer offered Val Kilmer a headlining role, which he declined and later regretted; the role was never specified. — Bill Simmons
Guesses for the Kilmer role are Viggo's part or Hunter, possibly turned down for not being big enough; he could have played every part except Hackman's. — Bill Simmons
Al Pacino was originally offered Captain Ramsey and would have dialed it up to 90 in his Vincent Hanna zone. — Bill Simmons
Warren Beatty was courted, another case of Beatty flirting with a part for a year before declining, as with the Burt Reynolds part in Boogie Nights, which is called the bigger miss; he would not have fit this movie. — Bill Simmons
Per a Don Simpson interview at Santa Anita, Pitt and Tom Cruise were considered for Denzel's part; Cruise was the first call for such parts for a decade, but it worked out perfectly. — Bill Simmons
It was an awesome big-screen movie that is not the same on any TV; a planned anniversary theater re-release was lost when the pandemic hit, and Jurassic Park is similar. — Bill Simmons
A Tarantino-hosted Tony Scott marathon at the New Beverly is proposed for when theaters reopen. — Bill Simmons
The man fixing the radio to save the world is the Bronx Tale actor Lillo Brancato, whose real life did not work out as well. — Bill Simmons
Hackman pulling a gun on Viggo, then switching targets once he remembers only Viggo knows the code, never sat right and should have come up in the report with Robards; the others seem fine with it. — Bill Simmons
Hackman going overtly racist at the tail end is questioned as a choice, especially with Black sailors aboard. — Bill Simmons
Choosing is hard because the whole movie is rewatchable. — Bill Simmons
The first Hackman-Denzel meeting, where Hackman compares horses to high school girls, has the two feeling each other out; Denzel realizes he needs to keep his guard up with this guy. — Bill Simmons
The semi-confrontation after the kitchen fire and the missile drill is where the sparring really begins, with Ramsey's speech about the unified chain of command and not questioning each other in front of the crew.
Calling a missile drill during a fire is joked to be a Bill Simmons move, like a 7 a.m. text or an emergency pod after an earthquake; the reply is that sometimes you have to run the missile drill.
The Silver Surfer argument with Danny Nucci's sailor is called clearly a Tarantino pop-culture scene; a little dated and not fully understood, but enjoyable. — Bill Simmons
The blow-up where Denzel relieves Hackman is praised for its overlapping speeches; the hosts say Lieutenant Zimmer was named as an homage to Hans Zimmer.
Hackman is guessed at 5-11; camera tricks sometimes make him look taller than Denzel, which is joked to be a Top Gun habit of Tony Scott's. — Bill Simmons
Quick cuts show the crew paralyzed watching; on rewatch, Hunter starts questioning the captain in public as soon as the fire happens. — Bill Simmons
A 'coming up next' take argues Hunter was in the wrong: in the military chain of command you never question the lead dog with other people around, so he loses Hackman from that point. — Bill Simmons
A counter-question asks whether Ramsey deliberately draws out Hunter's defiance; Hunter keeps asking why, echoing the Clausewitz exchange.
Because Ramsey hired Hunter, an early scene showing Hunter was not his choice would explain the testing; the counterpoint is that time was short while Radchenko fueled his missiles. — Bill Simmons
The torpedo attack, with the sub hit, water coming in and depths called out, is a hacky but necessary submarine-movie beat; from around there the last hour plays nearly in real time. — Bill Simmons
The bilge-bay 'Seal the bay' scene has Rick Schroder really going for it, joked to be how he got NYPD Blue.
Viggo, very young and baby-faced, is great and pivotal, though his accent pops with little Dutch-like flourishes.
'You don't put on a condom unless you want to fuck' is called Chris's favorite line, prompting HR and WordPress jokes.
Other lines include the one about only two sides to a mutiny, and Denzel gets several yearbook-ready lines. — Bill Simmons
Matt Craven and Rocky Carroll are perfect as the officers running envelopes down hallways; Carroll was known as Joey from Rock on Fox, and both later spent years on NCIS.
Hackman taking the boat back includes Denzel's extra second-and-a-half stare at Viggo. — Bill Simmons
One pick is the final confrontation: Hackman hitting him, the 'God help you if you're wrong' exchange, the three-minute wait for the radio, and the final message reveal, called seven unassailable minutes. — Bill Simmons
Another pick is the first mutiny, for the overlapping dialogue while the missiles are fueled; the stallions scene is acknowledged as the famous one.
A further voice agrees the first mutiny is the favorite part and the turning point, starting when Ramsey yells 'Mr. Hunter, I've made a decision... shut the fuck up!' — Sean Fennessey
The line is joked about for Zoom meetings; NBA owners most likely to yell it include Tillman Fertitta and Mickey Arison. — Sean Fennessey
Another proposal makes Lisa Bonet the pursued lead, gives Will Smith her smaller role, and recasts the spouse.
The panel argues that Jason Lee, Hackman, Voight, Jack Black, and others could trade several roles while remaining entertaining, but ultimately approves the released casting. — Sean Fennessey
Was Omar from The Wire inspired by Frank White? Avon Barksdale is suggested instead, or Frank split into several characters; the film may be missing an Omar-type gunfighter Frank keeps on ice.
Did Walken's subway muggers come back for a job? Yes, Harold Perrineau is seen later at the Plaza and in the Schoolly D scene.
Why does it take filmmakers so long to tap people who are obviously stars, as with Grantland and Ringer writers? The answer is the actors spent a decade building toward the right role, and most directors know only already-known actors.
While casting Reservoir Dogs, the speaker recalls casting director Ronnie Eskell (as heard) telling him, 'Quentin, if this directing thing doesn't work, I will give you half my business.' — Quentin Tarantino
Game recognizes game: Ferrara and the NYPD Blue team (Bocchco and Milch) recognized Caruso was ready; Tim Robbins recounted being promised The Player despite funding pressure.
On Jackie Brown, Paul Newman, Gene Hackman, Robert Forster and John Saxon were the four Max Cherry ideas; Forster got the role after an Alligator rewatch and a chance restaurant meeting, before bigger names could ask.
Pam Greer was baked into that project; Travolta was first considered for the Eric Stoltz role while Michael Madsen was expected as Vincent, then became the backup when that fell through.
For the last movie, casting Brad Pitt needed availability, a deal, and Rick cast first so his double Cliff would be realistic.
