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The Rewatchables · March 4, 2025

Rocky

host Bill Simmons host Chris Ryan host Van Lathan

What aged best: Steadicam
Casting what-if: Caan/Reynolds/O’Neal/Redford
Weakest link: Paulie

All 38 categories

Who won the movie Sylvester Stallone
Roger Ebert
Just one Oscar Stallone’s screenplay
Dion Waiters Award Buddy the driver

The Stephen A. Smith Hottest Take Award · 1:15:27

More Gazzo

Chris Ryan: Gazzo is the most interesting character outside Rocky, Adrian and Apollo; more scenes asserting control or fixing the fight could make the film more interesting.

Chris Ryan: The $500 offer appears to promise leverage over Rocky; two more Gazzo scenes could replace two Paulie scenes.

The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson · 1:42:56

Reject “bum”

Bill Simmons: Coach Finstock life lessons: don't let anyone call you bum; thinker not stinker; joking happier if dumber.

The film

Rocky (1976)

Directed by John G. Avildsen · Sports

IMDb Letterboxd Find on JustWatch Rotten Tomatoes

Cast

Selected cast credits · Film reference

Sylvester Stallone Rocky Balboa

Talia Shire Adrian Pennino

Burt Young Paulie Pennino

Carl Weathers Apollo Creed

Burgess Meredith Mickey Goldmill

Thayer David Miles Jergens

Joe Spinell Tony Gazzo

Jimmy Gambina Mike

Bill Baldwin Fight announcer

Al Salvani Cut man

George Memmoli Ice rink attendant

Jodi Letizia Marie

Diana Lewis TV commentator

George O'Hanlon TV commentator

Larry Carroll TV interviewer

Stan Shaw Dipper

Don Sherman Bartender

Billy Sands Club fight announcer

Pedro Lovell Club fighter

DeForest Covan Apollo's corner

Simmy Bow Club corner man

Tony Burton Apollo's trainer

Hank Rolike Apollo corner man

Shirley O'Hara Secretary

Kathleen Parker Paulie's date

Frank Stallone Timekeeper

Lloyd Kaufman Drunk

Jane Marla Robbins Owner of pet shop

Jack Hollander Fats

Joe Sorbello Bodyguard

Christopher Avildsen Chiptooth

Frankie Van Club fight referee

Lou Fillipo Championship fight announcer

Paris Eagle Fighter

Frank Stallone Jr. Streetcorner singer

Robert L. Tangrea Streetcorner singer

Peter Glassberg Streetcorner singer

William E. Ring Streetcorner singer

Joseph C. Giambelluc Streetcorner singer

Joe Frazier Special guest appearance

Arnold Johnson

Butkus Stallone Dog

Stu Nahan Fight commentator

Lavelle Roby Mrs. Creed

Michael Dorn Creed's bodyguard

Everything from the episode

In the order the hosts got to it. Open a row for the discussion.

23:15

Top Five List

Cruise 15; De Niro/Pacino 13; Denzel/Stallone 11

In the discussion (1)

Approx. transcript time · 00:23:15Read transcript

The show’s five leading actors by episode count are Cruise with fifteen, De Niro and Pacino with thirteen, and Denzel and Stallone with eleven. — Bill Simmons

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34:15

Roger Ebert's review

In the discussion (1)

Approx. transcript time · 00:34:15Read transcript

Ebert gave Rocky four stars and praised its hero and Stallone’s confident star performance. — Bill Simmons

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34:31

Perfect Age to See This Movie

13; 26–27 for contemporary viewers, jokingly

In the discussion (1)

Approx. transcript time · 00:34:31Read transcript

Perfect viewing age: thirteen (including thirteen in 1993); joking contemporary revision to26–27 because modern kids might not endure slow opening. Kids preferred Rocky III/IV.

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35:12

Most Rewatchable Scene

Gonna Fly Now training; fourteenth round

In the discussion (14)

Approx. transcript time · 00:35:12Read transcript

Most rewatchable scene begins: Spider Rico opening fight, headbutt, smoky aftermath, comic tax deductions from tiny payouts, then Take You Back. Opening action/theme reassures audience this will eventually be sports film. — Chris Ryan
Opening boxing portrayal described as unflattering, dirty, corrupt, fighters destroying themselves for little pay and awful fans; not criticism of choreography. — Van Lathan
Opening exploitation pays off by explaining the chance all fighters chase; Creed's opening instead immediately establishes skilled fighter. — Van Lathan
Three consecutive scene candidates grouped: Apollo bicentennial plan, abusive Gazzo driver exchange and Rocky finally retaliating, Apollo choosing Italian Stallion despite southpaw warning. — Bill Simmons
Jergens' offer and press conference: ham-and-egger humility, asking secretary to return business card as keepsake, greeting Adrian, later admitting TV mockery hurt. Audience already knows future legend he cannot foresee.
Mickey asks to manage Rocky, impart knowledge, prevent repeated mistakes; door-opening/closing and angry pride speech, then distant wordless reconciliation praised. Reconciliation suggested as Great Shot Gordo candidate. — Bill Simmons
Gonna Fly Now montage: one-handed pushups, racing boat, second successful stairs climb after earlier failed training; considered among greatest sports scenes. Museum/statue tourism and changing Philadelphia cultural relevance discussed. — Chris Ryan
Trunks painted wrong at arena reveals dispensability; ensuing Adrian speech about going distance and proving not another neighborhood bum praised.
Fight entrance candidate: Paulie's robe deal, Apollo Uncle Sam entrance and trash talk, Joe Frazier cameo, Master of Disaster/King of Sting nicknames. — Bill Simmons
First two rounds candidate: thrilling first knockdown, bar reaction, intentionally missing slaps, broken nose and Duke saying Rocky thinks it is a fight rather than show. — Bill Simmons
Fourteenth round named personal most-rewatchable choice: stay-down calls, Rocky rises, Adrian emerges, Apollo's slumped disbelief, body attack paid off from meat training. Repeated two-punch shot noted; Cut Me Mick effective but disgusting. — Bill Simmons
Fight ending candidate: Cut Me Mick, no-rematch exchange, hat question, bell/overhead crowd rush/music, emotional win despite decision, Paulie opens ropes. Empty arena visible on rewatch and some ADR criticized168–169.
Final scene discussion: training/Gonna Fly Now preferred by two responses, fourteenth round separately loved; first-date ice rink deserves mention for determination, southpaw story, emerging intimacy and attendant countdown urgency. Apartment encounter described as accosting. — Van Lathan
The meat-freezer interview is admired for Paulie intruding into the shot and Duke turning toward the sound of the punches; imaginary social-media reactions follow. — Bill Simmons

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40:41

The Great Shot Gordo Award for Most Cinematic Shot

Art museum steps; distant reconciliation; first training wide shot

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 00:40:41Read transcript

The distant, wordless reconciliation after the argument is suggested. — Bill Simmons
The Steadicam run up the art museum steps is selected; the award is jokingly renamed Great Shot Garrett. — Chris Ryan
The wide Philadelphia shot ending the first failed early-morning training run is another choice. — Bill Simmons

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41:15

The Big Kahuna Burger Award for Best Use of Food and Drink

Meat freezer; Thanksgiving turkey

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 00:41:15Read transcript

The meat-freezer interview is selected, with a suggestion it could replace the category namesake. — Bill Simmons
The Thanksgiving turkey is the countercandidate, especially Paulie wielding the greasy leg like a scepter. — Bill Simmons

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49:25

The most 1976 thing

White doo-wop singers and benevolent street drunks

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Approx. transcript time · 00:49:25Read transcript

Most1976: white doo-wop street singers and benevolent drunks versus contemporary street suffering. Real grimy smoke-filled dive bars challenge romantic nostalgia; recurring accusations everything stinks.

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51:24

What’s Aged the Best?

Steadicam; music; sports-film influence; training; Shire; ending

In the discussion (14)

Approx. transcript time · 00:51:24Read transcript

Aged best: Steadicam, reportedly third movie using it, stair test with inventor's wife, accepting money rather than points regretted. ASR inventor names inconsistent; verify externally rather than guessing. — Bill Simmons
Aged best: music/soundtrack still used in sporting events. — Bill Simmons
Aged best: actual turtles reportedly kept by Stallone and alive as of last2021 reference; turtle pets criticized as smelly, long-lived, undesirable indoors.
Aged best: sports-film form transformed by Rocky, called Marlon Brando of sports movies; dissent someone else might eventually have discovered formula. — Van Lathan
Digression contrasts real-sport fascination with dynasties and fictional underdogs, aspiration versus inspiration, Moneyball/Cashman example; The Game and Last Dance show dynasty stories work in books/docs; fans hypocritically resent real surprise winners.
Aged best race in boxing: tribal allegiances remain acceptable in boxing. Early sports films' white heroes facing Black opponents discussed. Disagreement over conceived Ali premise versus audience's racial reading and sequel wish; Apollo himself deploys race. Stallone's boxing investment illustrated by claimed Roy Jones Jr replacement by Antonio Tarver in Rocky Balboa. — Van Lathan
Race discussion: Apollo explicitly monetizes audience racial biases; opinion movie itself clean on race versus Rocky III, with Dipper taking Rocky's locker noted.
Boxing-gym authenticity: locker taunt and gym stopping for conflict; Van recounts fitness sparring complaint and racial tribalism, followed by commentary stereotype jokes.
Aged best: miserable initial5a.m. eggs/run/failed steps with coughing and side pain, setting up later triumphant return. — Bill Simmons
Angry Mickey dialogue praised, including women weaken legs and eat lightning/crap thunder; Burgess Meredith Penguin/Twilight Zone memories. — Bill Simmons
Aged best: inventive meat freezer, gritty1970s Philadelphia/Kensington/Port Richmond and economic despair shared by other cities. — Bill Simmons
Aged best: television Rocky marathons, complaint Rocky II repeats original ending; out-of-nowhere athlete inevitably evokes Rocky. — Bill Simmons
Aged best: Talia Shire in three Best Picture winners in five years; Adrian distinguished from Connie. Godfather family-lying digression. — Bill Simmons
Aged best: Gazzo's driver comedy, Steadicam, and final revised ending. Director anecdote rejected crowd-carrying ending and downcast aisle-walk ending before musical ring reunion saved film. Adrian's subtle vulnerability grounds exaggerated characters; joke Paulie bad brother. — Bill Simmons

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1:01:47

Brandy Booth Award for Best Performance by a Pet

Butkus

In the discussion (1)

Approx. transcript time · 01:01:47Read transcript

Butkus wins for multiple great scenes; the discussion recounts Stallone selling his dog while broke and recovering him after selling the script. — Bill Simmons

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1:05:44

The Slow Ride / Kid Cudi – Pursuit of Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop

Reflections; Gonna Fly Now

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 01:05:44Read transcript

Gonna Fly Now is suggested as a possible new category namesake. — Bill Simmons
Reflections is the choice, connected in the discussion with Kool and the Gang and Summertime.
Music at the ending recalls its use in Victory; the opening rapper creates an uncomfortable association, without being named. — Van Lathan

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1:06:34

Chest Rockwell / Brock Landers Award for Best Character Name

Apollo Creed; Spider Rico

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 01:06:34Read transcript

Rocky and Apollo are initially proposed, then Apollo Creed is emphatically selected and compared with Darth Vader.
Spider Rico is another admired name. — Bill Simmons

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1:07:04

Paulie Award for Asshole of the Film

Paulie

The panel proposes a new category here.

Flex pick · Van Lathan

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 01:07:04Read transcript

Van explicitly selected flex Paulie Award for Asshole of Film, Paulie winner. Discusses sequel power-of-attorney financial ruin, objection Rocky V never happened; modest defense Rocky IV his best version.
Paulie flex continued: treats sister as commodity, blames her for unmarried life, insults her, destroys Thanksgiving turkey while keeping leg and coerces date. Rocky partly complicit in coercion; exaggerated wished-for retaliation. — Chris Ryan
Paulie flex: no redeeming deep-down goodness; proposed Paulie/Panino why-character-awful naming, neighbors would tire of yelling.

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1:09:57

The Butch’s Girlfriend Award for the Weakest Link in the Film

Paulie; slow courtship

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 01:09:57Read transcript

Paulie or the slow Rocky–Adrian courtship are proposed; twenty-five minutes could now be nine. — Bill Simmons
The ice rink is defended, but another response wants the date to end with a kiss there rather than successive apartment invitations and persuasion.
Adrian discovers a sexual side of herself and offers to rub Rocky down.

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1:11:00

Steven Seagal Hard to Kill Award: Did This Movie Need a Better Intimacy Coordinator?

Yes: Rocky and Adrian’s first kiss

Flex pick · Bill Simmons

In the discussion (1)

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Steven Seagal Hard to Kill Award for needing better intimacy coordinator: first kiss feels mauling, Adrian trapped, phone request refused; saying going to kiss not sufficient freedom to decline.

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1:11:36

The Sean Penn “I Brought My Own Pack” Award for Excellence in On-Screen Smoking

Sylvester Stallone

In the discussion (1)

Approx. transcript time · 01:11:36Read transcript

Champagne Award Excellence in Smoking: Stallone; reportedly smoking so much for Rocky led him to quit, proposed related new award. — Chris Ryan

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1:12:07

What’s Aged the Worst?

Paulie; empty fight crowd; Marie advice; rejected points

In the discussion (8)

Approx. transcript time · 01:12:07Read transcript

Paulie’s abuse of his sister and lack of consequences age poorly.
The Chuck Wepner story is called the worst, without further explanation here. — Bill Simmons
The visibly empty fight audience prompts wishes for a restoration adding CGI spectators. — Bill Simmons
The Steadicam inventor declining profit points is another choice.
Rocky telling twelve-year-old Marie that bad language will lead to prostitution is criticized. — Chris Ryan
Marie later becoming a Rocky Balboa love interest makes the earlier interaction uncomfortable in retrospect. — Bill Simmons
White doo-wop groups are added.
The sequels abandon this conception of Rocky as he becomes smarter and more athletically gifted with age. — Chris Ryan

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1:14:35

The Ruffalo / Hanna / Rubinek / Partridge Overacting Award

Talia Shire confronting Paulie

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Adrian raging at Paulie is selected: praised as good acting, but Shire’s escalation can get away from her, as in the Godfather comparison.

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1:15:27

The Stephen A. Smith Hottest Take Award

More Gazzo; Rocky–Apollo romance; Rocky made Philadelphia

In the discussion (7)

Approx. transcript time · 01:15:27Read transcript

Gazzo is the most interesting character outside Rocky, Adrian and Apollo; more scenes asserting control or fixing the fight could make the film more interesting. — Chris Ryan
The $500 offer appears to promise leverage over Rocky; two more Gazzo scenes could replace two Paulie scenes. — Chris Ryan
The darker original script reportedly had Rocky throwing the fight and a racist Mickey. — Bill Simmons
Rocky and Apollo are called the beginning of the greatest love story, reprising an earlier provocative take. — Van Lathan
A deliberately extreme take says Rocky made Philadelphia, otherwise likened to Delaware with attitude, a museum and teams. — Bill Simmons
Others object that Delaware is a state and Philadelphia has actual championship and boxing history.
The provocation is defended as an attempt to restore extreme hottest takes. — Bill Simmons

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1:18:29

Casting What-Ifs

Caan/Reynolds/O’Neal/Redford; Norton; Keitel; Snodgress; Strasberg

In the discussion (8)

Approx. transcript time · 01:18:29Read transcript

United Artists reportedly wanted Redford, Ryan O’Neal, Burt Reynolds or James Caan; this is defended as plausible studio thinking rather than ideal casting. — Bill Simmons
O’Neal is rejected as too handsome and WASPy. — Bill Simmons
Caan as Rocky with Keitel or Cazale as Paulie is imagined. — Chris Ryan
Caan and Reynolds are challenged as too established; the unknown Stallone makes the audience root for the real performer too. — Bill Simmons
Ken Norton reportedly withdrew from Apollo before Carl Weathers took the role. — Bill Simmons
Stallone reportedly wanted Harvey Keitel for Paulie. — Bill Simmons
Carrie Snodgress reportedly left Adrian over money; Cher and Susan Sarandon auditioned, with Sarandon judged too pretty. — Bill Simmons
Lee Strasberg reportedly wanted too much money to play Mickey.

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1:18:58

Recasting Couch

John Cazale as a more likable Paulie; otherwise unchanged

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 01:18:58Read transcript

Caan as Rocky with Harvey Keitel or John Cazale as Paulie is imagined, but Caan and Reynolds are considered too established for the unknown-underdog effect. — Bill Simmons
Recasting: initial leave cast alone, then more palatable Paulie considered; John Cazale failed-brother type may repeat roles but charisma would make him likable. Imagined neglected skinny alcoholic and robe-logo hustler.

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1:20:47

Van Lathan Award for Did This Movie Need More Black People?

No answer captured

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Approx. transcript time · 01:20:47Read transcript

The category is introduced, but the transcript cuts through an advertisement to Best That Guy without a substantive answer. — Bill Simmons

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1:21:19

The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award

Thayer David

In the discussion (3)

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Thayer David as Jergens wins. — Bill Simmons
Joe Spinell is proposed but rejected as a graduated That Guy. — Bill Simmons
Stan Shaw as Dipper is also too established; Frank Stallone is recognized by his own name. — Chris Ryan

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1:22:05

The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance

Buddy the driver

In the discussion (3)

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Candidates include Marie, Tony Burton, Joe Spinell, Stu Nahan and Bill Baldwin. — Bill Simmons
Buddy the driver wins as the definition of the award; his license-plate joke became a repeated family joke. — Bill Simmons
Burgess Meredith is rejected for having too much screen time. — Bill Simmons

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1:23:13

Half-Assed Internet Research

Production constraints; fight choreography; poster error; number-one song

In the discussion (8)

Approx. transcript time · 01:23:13Read transcript

Duke reportedly received his name only in Rocky II; Bound for Glory and Marathon Man preceded Rocky’s Steadicam use. — Bill Simmons
The ice rink was empty because the production could not afford extras. — Bill Simmons
Meredith used a fake cauliflower ear and a nostril tube to alter his appearance. — Bill Simmons
Young reportedly applied vermouth and wore excess clothing to feel uncomfortable and angry; the meat-locker drinking is recalled. — Bill Simmons
The final fight reportedly began without choreography and had to stop so it could be planned.
The wrong trunks on the arena poster were reportedly an actual error incorporated into the scene. — Bill Simmons
A Philadelphia union issue reportedly moved much of the fight filming to Los Angeles. — Bill Simmons
Gonna Fly Now reached number one on the Billboard Hot 100, above the guesses of top ten or seven.

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1:26:48

“OK, Motherfucker” Award for When the Movie Goes Up a Notch

Gonna Fly Now training montage

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Gonna Fly Now arriving about ninety minutes into the film lifts the sleepy boxing story and gets the adrenaline going, including the boat race. — Chris Ryan

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1:27:29

Apex Mountain

Talia Shire; Spider Rico; women removing glasses (qualified); shy girlfriends (qualified)

In the discussion (12)

Approx. transcript time · 01:27:29Read transcript

Stallone’s peak is placed at Rocky III and First Blood in 1982, not this film. — Bill Simmons
Removing glasses to reveal a more attractive woman is tentatively an apex; She’s All That is considered, while another response disputes suddenly finding Adrian hot.
Talia Shire receives affirmative apex answers; later projects reportedly did not succeed.
Shy girlfriends receive a tentative yes. — Chris Ryan
Bull Durham is preferred for abstaining from sex during sports, with disagreement over whether Rocky truly abstains.
John Avildsen’s peak may be The Karate Kid, when he had both that and Rocky despite the earlier Oscar.
Philadelphia alternatives include 1776, the 1983 Sixers and major football wins; Rocky remains a defining image rather than a settled unique apex. — Chris Ryan
Burt Young’s more tolerable Rocky III character is considered, while Back to School is named his best performance. — Bill Simmons
Spider Rico receives a definite yes. — Bill Simmons
Ice-skating dates face Happy Gilmore and The Cutting Edge alternatives.
Rocky movies receive a no.
Boxing-film apex is disputed by definition: Raging Bull is judged better and chosen for a desert island, while Rocky is more culturally significant.

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1:33:25

Cruise or Hanks?

Cruise; Hanks dissents

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Cruise or Hanks Cruise wins explicit democracy with dissent Hanks. Heavyweight plausibility challenged for both, Cruise preparation/weight-change defense. — Chris Ryan

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1:33:50

Scorsese or Spielberg?

Scorsese; co-directing alternative

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Scorsese or Spielberg: co-directing proposal gritty character work plus inspirational climactic fight; separate Scorsese choice supported by Raging Bull.

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1:34:31

What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman play?

Paulie; Gazzo’s driver; Jergens

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 01:34:31Read transcript

Paulie is the repeated Hoffman choice. — Bill Simmons
Gazzo’s driver is another possibility. — Bill Simmons
Jergens is considered as well. — Bill Simmons

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1:34:42

Picking Nits

Arena access; five-week notice; Mickey’s training/hearing; Adrian’s dating

In the discussion (5)

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Picking Nits: empty Spectrum access questioned, defended because Rocky on next-day fight card and could inspect ring; empty setup implausibility reiterated. — Bill Simmons
Nit: forty fighters refusing five-week notice implausible for huge payday; response perhaps feared Creed, matchmaking story correction, real short-notice fight examples. — Bill Simmons
Nit: string-between-ankles balance training dubious, Mickey contribution limited; Apollo better trainer argument versus Mickey teaching body punches/balance/no smoking and real improvement.
Nit: Mickey cannot plausibly hear normal-volume speech down hall/stairs through doors after years of punches. — Chris Ryan
Nit: someone would have dated Adrian earlier, Rocky only now pursuing friend's sister; rebuttal he repeatedly visited making jokes. Sexual transformation and clothing jokes.

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1:38:39

Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake

Enough Rocky; unknown underdog or female/MMA variation

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Sequel/prequel/prestige TV/all-Black cast/untouchable: many versions already done, enough Rocky opinion; speculative planned Creed-universe television after Amazon MGM purchase, uncertainty acknowledged.
Future direction: true unknown underdog rather than champion's son, female Rocky idea then rejection in favor original movie; modern cynicism and amateur-record questions, MMA version/Warrior as strongest example. Erotic Adrian's Awakening and hired-to-weaken-legs joke extended, Clubber attraction joke.

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1:39:16

Is This Movie Better With…?

Gazzo’s driver; Collinsworth and Romo impressions

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Approx. transcript time · 01:39:16Read transcript

Is Movie Better With character roster read; add Gazzo's driver and say better with him, Collinsworth and Romo impressions about Adrian's sexual awakening. — Bill Simmons

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1:40:19

Just One Oscar

Stallone’s screenplay

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Just One Oscar: Stallone screenplay. — Bill Simmons

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1:40:32

Probably Unanswerable Questions

Women weakening legs; hypothetical fight odds

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Approx. transcript time · 01:40:32Read transcript

Unanswerable: do women weaken legs? Recalled HBO or Showtime Sex and Sweet Science program allegedly found no scientific support; podcast assertion, uncertain network. — Van Lathan
Unanswerable betting hypotheticals: Creed minus2000 or perhaps30–1 using Tyson/Douglas analogy, rounds over-under2.5, Gazzo fixing angle, after early knockdown Creed minus400. Clearly invented odds not actual betting history. — Bill Simmons

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1:41:45

What Piece of Memorabilia Would You Want From This Movie?

Gloves; sweatshirt; pullovers; posters; Mickey photo

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Memorabilia reluctance due smell/hygiene; fight/training gloves, Italian Stallion gray sweatshirt needing fumigation, Mickey training pullovers, gym/Jergens posters, battered young-Mickey photo. Locker/Skid Row and Adrian sex-book jokes. — Bill Simmons

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1:42:56

The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson

Reject “bum”; thinker, not stinker; ignorance is bliss

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Coach Finstock life lessons: don't let anyone call you bum; thinker not stinker; joking happier if dumber. — Bill Simmons

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1:43:51

Best Double Feature

Raging Bull; Saturday Night Fever; Rocky II

Raging Bull

Saturday Night Fever

Rocky II

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 01:43:51Read transcript

Double features three final responses: Raging Bull, Saturday Night Fever, Rocky II. Rocky II requires skipping coma section; ending25min praised. — Bill Simmons
Sequel quality disagreement: Van likes Rocky V, another despises it but praises final30min; discussion rediscovering Marie in Rocky Balboa.

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1:44:56

Who Won the Movie?

Sylvester Stallone

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Sylvester Stallone wins emphatically, with a suggestion this might be the greatest movie win ever. — Bill Simmons
Writing and starring as an unknown, then building a long franchise, makes the achievement unusually difficult to repeat.
Tarantino, Palminteri, Roberts, Pacino and Welles are discussed as comparisons, with prior visibility limiting several parallels.

Podcast choices

Bill Simmons: Sylvester Stallone

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More from the conversation

Bill Simmons introduces Van Lathan and Chris Ryan; Rocky trailer.

Approx. transcript time · 00:02:19Read transcript

Joking Rocky 3 prequel framing; small character study and love story with boxing mostly in final thirteen minutes.

Approx. transcript time · 00:03:34Read transcript

Rewatches often begin at Apollo's offer, skipping painful opening depiction of a loser; film establishes modern sports-underdog prototype despite earlier examples.

Approx. transcript time · 00:04:46Read transcript

Apollo and Jergens manufacture a media story; Rocky initially declines the undeserved opportunity with self-awareness.

Approx. transcript time · 00:05:57Read transcript

Adrian losing her hat on the way to the ring symbolizes shedding her old self; familiar chance-and-girl story, with minor criticism of slow passages.

Approx. transcript time · 00:07:38Read transcript

Bill remembers seeing it at Dedham and misunderstanding whether Rocky won after hearing 8–7; others first encountered Rocky IV and watched backward.

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Age brings appreciation of early artistry versus sequels' action/music-video style; urban 1970s sadness contrasted with later suburban films.

Approx. transcript time · 00:09:38Read transcript

Mickey walking away as Rocky shouts about abandonment provokes tears.

Approx. transcript time · 00:12:07Read transcript

Paulie disliked and interpreted as Rocky without boxing or a way out beyond his friend's success.

Approx. transcript time · 00:12:26Read transcript

Discussion recalls Rocky alongside Jaws, Saturday Night Fever and Star Wars as phenomena, jogging and training influence, childhood shadowboxing to the soundtrack, and Stallone's rise compared with Tarantino plus acting.

Approx. transcript time · 00:12:56Read transcript

Stallone's refusal to compromise mirrors Rocky's self-belief; screenplay praised via William Goldman's locker-scene analysis and Rocky admitting the television mockery actually hurt him. Sports characters watching television opponents discussed as influential trope.

Approx. transcript time · 00:14:39Read transcript

Apollo compared with Rod Tidwell as best supporting sports character: articulate charismatic businessman orchestrating race, capitalism and bicentennial Americana against less-verbal central characters. Jergens' delighted cigar reaction praised; cynical matchmaking and ignoring Duke's training warning criticized.

Approx. transcript time · 00:16:30Read transcript

Discussion recounts Ali–Wepner inspiration, Wepner lawsuit/settlement, and claimed three-and-a-half-day script draft; preserve as podcast-reported lore.

Approx. transcript time · 00:19:24Read transcript

Good Will Hunting comparison tempered by Damon/Affleck prior credits. Recounted Henry Winkler intervention retrieving script from ABC and Stallone refusing offers without himself starring; betting on himself theme.

Approx. transcript time · 00:20:03Read transcript

Alternate Stallone primarily-writer career considered; charismatic performer possibly constrained by returning to Rocky/Rambo. Nighthawks/Victory experiments and 1982 Rocky III/First Blood breakout discussed; Cop Land transformation.

Approx. transcript time · 00:21:31Read transcript

Sports-film recipe: surprise star, supporting cast (Apollo, Mickey, Paulie, Adrian, Gazzo, driver, Jergens, Duke), underdog, great music, chills such as racing boat, great ending. Duke dialogue and driver comedy singled out.

Approx. transcript time · 00:25:20Read transcript

Rocky and Bad News Bears invert expected sports victory; Rocky's personal transformation uplifts supporting characters, compared with Cinderella Man.

Approx. transcript time · 00:26:51Read transcript

Adrian praised as supportive sports-movie girlfriend, unlike later sequels; inability to watch him hurt then entering arena. Jokes about pet-shop economics and all-white doo-wop group with Frank Stallone.

Approx. transcript time · 00:27:42Read transcript

Mickey becomes more sympathetic with age: frustration with wasted talent; counterpoint locker removal and opportunistic response to payday. Newspaper clippings reveal pathetic vulnerability and desire to be near remaining possibility.

Approx. transcript time · 00:29:07Read transcript

Oscar history discussed and re-litigated: All the President's Men preferred for Picture, Scorsese for Director, De Niro for Actor, Holden preferred to Finch in Network. Rocky's novelty and phenomenon explain victory. Transcript says Shire not nominated; store only attributed podcast claim if retained, not verified metadata.

Approx. transcript time · 00:31:02Read transcript

Reported $1.1m budget/$225m gross, eight sequels including Creed; uncertain franchise economic totals, Philadelphia impact and mythic Paul Bunyan comparison. Cultural phenomenon contrasts with sad indie-like opening.

Approx. transcript time · 00:32:49Read transcript

Ryen phone-call segment abandoned after0for5 and habitual screening; not episode participant.

Approx. transcript time · 01:43:16Read transcript

Midnight Boys Pew-Pew catchphrase digression and Rewatchables beep joke.

Approx. transcript time · 01:46:52Read transcript

Coverage now Rocky I/III/IV and Creed; II least rewatchable anticipated last. Creed III Jonathan Majors performance praised and preferred to II, franchise older than Chris.

Approx. transcript time · 01:47:22Read transcript

Explicit final rankings: addressed respondent gives III,I,IV,II; Van gives III,IV,I,V,II. Four-/five-entry rankings, not top10. II least original continuation; III franchise leap, IV Cold War, V fall from success.

Approx. transcript time · 01:50:23Read transcript

Bill remembers Rocky II theater crowd celebrating like sports crowd; Boston racial jokes and Adrian's Awakening callback.

Approx. transcript time · 01:51:18Read transcript

Thanks Jack Sanders explicit fullname; Craig Horlbeck shout-out explicitly says absent this time, do not credit as participating producer solely RSS. Verify Jack official role.

Approx. transcript time · 01:51:48Read transcript