Recasting: Ali Larter's Landman character as Big Nick's ex-wife, with a joke that she would respond less gracefully and might stab him. — Chris Ryan
A prequel about young Nick's football years and entry into Los Angeles policing is proposed after discussing Timothée Chalamet's next role. — Bill Simmons
The Chappelle idea receives immediate objections; the proposer ultimately says he was wrong despite imagining gun training and jokes at Nick’s expense. — Chris Ryan
The existing cast is ultimately retained. — Bill Simmons
A funnier Bosco is proposed, with Flea invoked as a model for someone who could mock Nick. — Chris Ryan
Shane Gillis as Murph is offered as another example of a cop who could supply a few jokes about Nick.
Nicolas Cage would have suited Big Nick in the mid-to-late 2000s but has aged out of that version. — Chris Ryan
Pedro Pascal is a contemporary Big Nick possibility, with physical credibility and apparent behavioral authenticity important to the role. — Chris Ryan
An unspecified Wagner is another possibility; the transcript does not establish a surname. — Chris Ryan
Liev Schreiber, Jeffrey Wright and Benicio del Toro are considered talented possibilities but thought visually less suited to the character’s presentation. — Andy Greenwald
Most Rewatchable Scene begins with young Adonis’s opening encounter with Mary Anne, praising a scene that works better than expected. — Bill Simmons
The opening adoption scene is essential to explaining Adonis’s feelings; the unclenched fist and title reveal are praised.
The Andre Ward car-key-bet fight is nominated, though watching Donnie beaten makes one host sad; Van compares it to humbling real boxing encounters. — Van Lathan
Donnie meeting Rocky at Adrian’s is praised for Stallone gradually recognizing Apollo’s son and the time-is-undefeated line. Rocky diminishing his own victories to honor Apollo reframes the franchise mythology.
Rocky says Apollo won their private third fight. Bill doubts whether he is sparing the son’s feelings; Van thinks Apollo probably won. The uncertainty remains unresolved. — Bill Simmons
Donnie moving into Paulie’s room leads to a scene using Stallone’s real son’s photograph; the hosts praise his visible emotion and report Coogler persuaded him to include it. Paulie’s absence and missing robot prompt jokes. — Bill Simmons
The uninterrupted Leo–Donnie fight is nominated; the panel names its cinematographer and reports thirteen takes with the eleventh used. — Bill Simmons
The two-round fight is praised as a culmination of boxing cinema, immersive proof of Jordan’s credibility and Coogler’s action ability. Its tie-ups and counterpunches feel more realistic than the Rocky-style finale; the camera’s move from Rocky’s instruction to the knockout is admired.
The Baby Creed confrontation with Tone Trump is a scene nominee, called a characteristically Philadelphia escalation between two easily offended men. Van had invited the rapper to attend. — Van Lathan
Van interprets Tone Trump and Bianca as former sexual partners; another host offers past flirtation without consummation as an alternative. Familiarity is agreed but sexual history remains speculation; a joint music track is imagined. — Van Lathan
A provocative joke links Bianca’s hearing loss to gunfire; the panel asks whether Baby Creed is insulting and suggests Adonis was primed to take offense.
The jailhouse reconciliation and its absent-father monologue are nominated, linked to the mirror-training advice. — Bill Simmons
The bikes-and-ATVs training montage is a thrilling modern counterpart to Rocky’s runs. Its Meek Mill music is framed against the 2015 Drake feud and explicitly wins the needle-drop category.
The press conference, Conlan’s false-Creed taunt, the trunks from his mother, Rocky’s pre-fight speech, Tupac’s Hail Mary and Conlan’s entrance are praised. — Bill Simmons
Adonis shadowboxing while watching his father’s footage is nominated as an image of wanting to become Apollo. — Van Lathan
The final fight is nominated, especially round two and the late corner exchange about not being a mistake. Rocky’s love and renewed will to fight his illness lead into the deliberately withheld Rocky theme; the implausibly timed finish is enjoyed with objections deferred. — Bill Simmons
The final museum-steps exchange about seeing one’s life is nominated.
Chris chooses the Meek Mill training montage and adds the cheesesteak first date as a particularly Philadelphia scene; the date also wins the food award.
Van favors the father-film shadowboxing and training montage; the recreated 24/7 fight promotion also impresses. Another final choice is the montage. Liev Schreiber’s narration and his Hard Knocks appearance prompt a tangent.
Leav Schreiber is bumped for a skinny, pre-Good Will Hunting Ben Affleck of the Chasing Amy and Mallrats era, for a little more star power. — Bill Simmons
Jason Lee is the other option, to add some wise-ass comments; the bald Californication guy's role was meant to be the wise-ass and did not work. — Van Lathan
The Boston Globe in real life is floated, still powerful before the internet, fresh off a Pulitzer; the answer is 'maybe' and 'in play'. — Bill Simmons
Ruffalo is close but not at Apex; Zodiac is preferred, and he later spent his time on Hulk.
Slattery lands his best movie role here, but Mad Men is his Apex.
Liev Schreiber gets a yes, with Ray Donovan and the Chuck Weppner movie at the same time, but is challenged ('Are we sure?') and the talk drifts to his stage career. — Ryen Russillo
Rachel McAdams is a no (with an apparent reference to The Notebook), and newspaper movies are a no. — Bill Simmons
A category transcribed as 'pre-scandal movies' (the intended phrase is unclear in the transcript) gets a 'yes, unfortunately'; kept out of the result as unclear. — Ryen Russillo
Schreiber is in the Damien remake that one host's son loves. — Bill Simmons
One participant names khakis as an Apex Mountain, asking whether any film features them more prominently. — Chris Ryan
For saying the title in the movie, Face/Off remains Apex despite Spotlight's frequent title drops. — Bill Simmons
The movie is centered on about five rewatchable scenes that bleed into each other, and the last hour and fifteen minutes is one action piece divided into three; one first pick is everything from the Hofbrau introduction through Nick and the LASD clique bracing Donnie in the hotel room.
The case for the opening donut-shop robbery is the eeriness of LA at three or four in the morning once you leave Hollywood for Hawthorne and the side towns off the 10 and the 5, when the traffic is gone and the streets are empty, even if wetting down the streets is a liberty.
The guy in the back of the armored truck has the worst job and always gets blown up; the crew goes straight for the cops and kills the first two in two seconds, which sets a tone unlike Heat, where the crew only fires back at cops as a last resort.
The scene extends to the garage afterward, where the zoom on Pablo staring into the empty truck and the cop-killers line lay the stakes bare: thirty million richer or dead; Butler's entrance eating the donut, the hot-zone exchange and the pain-in-the-ass FBI agent giving him grief, plus the palm-juice piss-test detail, are also loved.
Whether the drill-the-hole, insert-and-open trick on the truck window is a nod to the umbrella trick in the fifties French heist film Rafifi (as transcribed), alongside the obvious Heat hat tips, is raised as a question.
The Hofbrau and the hotel room are where the movie jumps a level: Donnie's plea that he is only a driver, the tasing, the weird hotel with indoor smoking, ladies of the night and chicken tenders, and Nick pointing at his regulators to explain that the clique owns him; catching Donnie this early rather than midway is a different play.
Donnie's story of meeting Merriman at the backyard barbecue, Merriman eating skirt steak with nothing else, the Dasani everywhere, the silver dollar pancakes pause, and the genre's tradition of people eating unhappily outdoors are enjoyed; Nick's ex-wife's dinner party is the only happy meal in the film.
50 Cent's prom-date scene, tucking in the blood handkerchief and leading the kid into the garage to meet the entire Long Beach Poly offensive line plus Pablo Schreiber and the Samoan guys, is played perfectly.
The Benihana scene is one host's favorite scene in the movie; the idea is the Heat move of letting the other crew know you are on to them and applying pressure, and the guess is that ten straight takes were shot before Butler asked to do one completely insane take, which is the one they used.
Benihana nitpicks are part of its rewatch appeal: Nick blows Donnie's cover immediately, and in real life a crew that killed four cops would have the city locked down rather than being followed to dinner, though the cops have no evidence and want to kill rather than arrest them.
Whether this is the best Benihana scene of all time is asked; Benihana is an underused location with the shared table and the knives, and the dream version has Big Nick and Merriman squeezed in beside a family of civilians.
How Merriman's crew set up an entire murder tent in the garage with plastic and a vat of acid between leaving Benihana and getting back is a lingering question, answered with the joke that a four-letter text to Jeff Chow at the Ringer gets the same thing set up in the spare office.
Merriman standing up at the table with the family-here, popping-off line, shot so he looks eighteen feet tall with his chin out and chest tattoos, is a comic-book trick; the revelation that he is Liev Schreiber's half-brother leads to the joke of drafting him too.
The men's suit store meeting is called possibly the greatest scene in American cinema history: cops who are regulars in a lounge at a shop selling leather jackets, cowboy boots and remaindered suits, Butler buying an out-of-style half-duster leather jacket and drinking coffee from porcelain, and Donnie openly meeting them in public, compared to the Hamburger Hamlet emergency meeting in Entourage.
The personal-life interlude that follows the suit store is too much, the same problem as Heat, although Heat's relationships are detailed enough not to feel like a waste while the ex-wife here has no personality; Natalie Portman could be cut from Heat, a debate saved for the hundredth episode.
The locked-and-loaded scene is a high-level version of the action-movie staple, with Gus's visualization techniques and Pablo Schreiber's rifle lesson to Donnie played as a clip; the crew carries thousands of bullets and still runs out.
The three final robberies are the Pico Savings and Loan fake hostage situation, which one host found a mail-in that needed a more frightened bank manager, the long and elaborate Federal Reserve heist, and the highway shootout; the Chinese food sitting in the ceiling for a week is flagged as a nitpick.
The Kaiser Soze reveal at the end does not need rewatching once you have it, though O'Shea Jackson's English accent is loved; the guess is that the original script was Merriman versus Nick and the Donnie plot was expanded so the last two scenes set up a sequel.
Two go with Benihana as the one to stop channel-flipping for; the third has two answers, the shooting range standoff on a first viewing and, after five or six viewings, the hotel room interview where Donnie's little traps and the director's traps for the audience become visible, which also shows O'Shea Jackson is a gifted actor and a movie star.
Earlier the Benihana scene is called incredible despite making no sense, and any scene set in Ziggy's Hofbrau would do.
Casting what-ifs are knocked out fast because the movie cannot be imagined with anyone else; Harvey Dent is called secretly very good casting because the part needed someone who thought he was a big deal but actually was not, which is perfect for Aaron Eckhart, a shot another host, who loves Eckhart, pushes back on with a joke about a Gulf Coast condo built on Eckhart stock.
Actors who expressed interest or auditioned for Harvey Dent: Josh Lucas, not heard from much since Glory Road; Liev Schreiber, judged a little too dark and stormy for a Dent who has to start as a golden boy, though he could have been a good Two Face; Mark Ruffalo, rejected as way too cerebral and neurotic; and Matt Damon, which prompts the question of why Damon just wants to be in a Christopher Nolan movie.
Young, Courage Under Fire-era Matt Damon would have made a great Robin.
Christopher Nolan is quoted as never really having considered anyone but Heath Ledger for the Joker, which is dismissed as what they say after the fact; actors rumored for the role were Paul Bettany (fine), Steve Carell (no), Robin Williams (maybe in a Tim Burton movie, a little too ghoulish), Adrian Brody (as transcribed; 'I can see it') and Ryan Phillippe, who is said to turn up more than anyone in lists of roles he did not get and to have been in the final three for Captain America with Krasinski and Chris Evans, which usually means great publicist, bad agent.
Ledger's performance is so legendary, arguably the most iconic movie performance of the 21st century, that nobody can be put in the role; an actor rumored for it would be wise to scrub that from the internet.
William Fichtner's bank manager is said to have been offered to Dwight Yoakam, who was busy recording Dwight Meets Buck, prompting the question whether that is a Buck Owens cover record; the hosts love Yoakam as a movie actor, a legend in Panic Room and Wedding Crashers with a quiet malevolence on screen, though he would not have been right for this particular role.
There is not a lot of unintentional comedy except the Winkler scenes, which are funny now, and Arquette, who is just off, funny in retrospect given people thought he might be something.
Skeet Ulrich giving a performance he probably does not believe is satire is unintentionally funny, since he was cast as a carbon copy of someone the director worked with fifteen years earlier, which an actor could never be told; Casper Van Deem (as transcribed) thinking Starship Troopers was a drama is the comparison.
The Liev Schreiber cameo is thrown in because his voice comes to mind immediately, imagining him testifying at the trial for killing Sidney's mother or narrating Magic vs. Bird.
