The hosts say the character was originally named Danny Weber and renamed LaRusso once Macchio was cast; Macchio auditioned for Johnny because he did not want to play another good guy. — Bill Simmons
Zabka is cited saying Robert Downey Jr. and Charlie Sheen were considered for Daniel; Downey might have made a better movie, but the counterpoint is that Macchio's odd combination is what makes it stand out, and a likable Downey would have muddied whether Johnny was the villain. — Bill Simmons
Sheen is not seen as Daniel and would have fit Johnny better. — Bill Simmons
The studio originally wanted a famous Japanese actor from Seven Samurai for Miyagi (name garbled in the transcript), but he did not speak English; Bill Cosby is also said to have been mentioned, which would have aged worst. — Bill Simmons
The hosts say Crispin Glover was considered for Johnny before Zabka, and Helen Hunt and Demi Moore for Ali before Shue, who reportedly got it partly from a Burger King commercial and took leave from Harvard. — Bill Simmons
The answer is obviously yes, and it is surprising it has not happened. — Bill Simmons
A previously published plan: a pilot covering life before the flight, a crash episode, island episodes intercut with Helen Hunt's character falling for the dentist, possible TV twists like a surviving pilot or natives, then rescue and the return to Memphis; possibly 16 episodes or two eight-episode seasons. — Bill Simmons
It is Apex Mountain for volleyballs, given the 2000 Olympics, a jump in volleyball purchases and Wilson becoming iconic. — Bill Simmons
It is peak Chris Noth time, between Sex and the City and a film said to have made $459 million.
It is Fiji's apex as the best movie ever filmed there.
Not Zemeckis's or Hanks's apex; it is certainly Nick Searcy's; Helen Hunt's apex is probably her Oscar win with Nicholson; the Tennessee Titans getting a name drop for 20 years is only a maybe. — Bill Simmons
The plane crash is an incredible six minutes and one of the best action scenes of the past 25 years, with the view of the water through the plane's front window and the 'brace for impact' moment. — Bill Simmons
The crash has one nitpick saved for later; the co-pilot's bloody head injury might have been toned down, and it is doubtful Chuck survives. — Bill Simmons
The escape from the wreck, the propeller nearly chewing him up and the overhead shot pulling away from him in the ocean make the scene hard to skip when flipping channels.
The second pick is Chuck's failed raft escape after seeing a boat, when a huge wave throws him to the bottom and cuts him; the boredom of island life is also well represented, compared to the current moment.
The third pick is Chuck making fire, called Apex Hanks; it is doubted Brad Pitt or Leo could pull it off, and Damon in The Martian has no scene as good.
The next pick is Chuck getting off the island: building the raft, raising the sail and clearing the killer wave, after which the score plays for the first time in about an hour. — Bill Simmons
A mini pick is the rescue and Helen Hunt's character fainting on the phone call; losing Wilson is rewatchable but stressful, a 'most makes me uncomfortable' pick. — Bill Simmons
The reunion at Helen Hunt's character's house is walked through: she skips the airport party, he arrives by cab, they talk about the Titans, she shows him the maps, then runs after his car in the rain before they accept it cannot work. — Bill Simmons
The last pick is the ending, confusing at first but brilliant after rewatches; Hanks is quoted describing rejected scenarios, including Chuck as a media celebrity, before they chose to downplay it; the last six minutes are among the strongest.
The Helen Hunt scene is the choice because it is a great six or seven minutes that moves several ways and allows getting annoyed at the husband; others might pick the plane crash or the escape from the island. — Bill Simmons
Kurt Russell first, with the reminder that the question is the highest point of his career, not the favorite: one case is The Thing in 1982, after Escape from New York and with Silkwood, Swing Shift and Big Trouble in Little China coming; a no is cast because Escape from New York was only later a cult hit, raising whether apex is judged at the time or on reflection.
Reading about Tombstone makes it sound like Russell was able to finance the movie coming off Backdraft, a relatively big hit he starred in, likened to LeBron in the 2018 Finals; a controversial case is made for Tango and Cash, when after the well-liked Tequila Sunrise with Michelle Pfeiffer a hit with Stallone, an absolutely ridiculous movie only those two could pull off, left him looking like an A plus list star.
Tango and Cash was not a huge hit, costing $55 million and making $66 million, though $55 million in 1988 is like $160 million today, and it is not that good; the counter is that it opened up Backdraft and his ability to finance Tombstone; the actual answer may be that there was no apex at all, a range of rolling hills, which is what is cool about his career.
Russell was nominated for Best Supporting Actor for Silkwood, which is why his Apex Mountain is around The Thing in 1982 or 1983, when Escape from New York was becoming a cult movie. — Sean Fennessey
Whether Russell was ever Oscar-nominated is disputed, Miracle floated and rejected, until the Silkwood nomination is recalled; the host who forgot it concedes, a 180 the others tease.
Russell could have had a different career as a serious dramatic actor rather than leaning into the masculine hero; he and Harrison Ford are cut from the same cloth, smart throwbacks to Paul Newman charisma, but Ford got two franchises while Russell alternates three good films and three bad; he is also just a good-looking dude, at his most handsome here, a man who should be on a poster.
Val Kilmer: a no, with Top Gun imagined as his apex, since coming out of it people saw him neck and neck with the star, though another calls that the star's movie and goes Heat, where as De Niro's wingman in the biggest mid-90s movie he is the next wave; his pre-Batman run is traced through True Romance, Tombstone, The Real McCoy, Thunderheart and The Doors.
1987 right after Top Gun is floated, when Willow was hopefully going to be his Han Solo and did not work out; one host's personal apex for him is The Doors, where he was out of control, and a Doors rewatchable is wanted, though JFK would have to come first among the Oliver Stone movies.
Jason Priestley is a thousand-percent yes: 90210 was never bigger, he is in a movie with Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer and has a couple of heat-check scenes, the steepest mountain of all time, very high with a precipitous drop on either side; a caution that a later show (transcribed 'Natuna') was big for three and a half years does not change the view that this literally was his Apex Mountain and his first dabbling in movies.
Dana Delaney's apex has to be China Beach, which was probably already gone by this point, so she is not a yes; nobody else is proposed except George Cosmatos as ghost director, already covered, with the joke of a Ringer video secretly directed by someone else.
The late Bill Paxton: this is not a Mount Rushmore Paxton performance next to Aliens, Near Dark, One False Move, Weird Science, True Lies and Twister, though it may be his sweetest spot while figuring out how to be Bill Paxton; in Aliens Sigourney Weaver is the hero but Paxton and Biehn would in any other world have been the stars, and One False Move is incredible though arguably Billy Bob's movie too.
Twister was Hollywood's first concerted effort to make Paxton a major star, marketed with Helen Hunt and Philip Seymour Hoffman as people who were going to be stars rather than actual stars; the shift from needing a movie star to needing a tornado, meteor or alien invasion is traced to Speed, where Keanu was the guy and Sandra Bullock turned out to be one of the biggest stars of the next twenty years.
Paxton is one of the all-time great number two or three guys: here he sets picks and makes a couple of corner threes, telling Wyatt he is the one, spits a lot, works the scorer's-table handshakes at the start, and gets the 'hey' when Doc responds to Wyatt's description of his new wife with 'pure as the driven snow'.
The friendship and the interpersonal relationships; Damon's performance; the two Elliot Smith songs; Casey Affleck's I Hate LA shirt; the Boston accents other than Robin Williams's; the 'how about them apples' scene; the ending; Robin Williams's and Ben Affleck's clothes; the dialogue
The friendship, since this is really a buddies movie about the bonds of friends; Damon is great and it is hard to believe he did not win the Oscar over Jack Nicholson in As Good As It Gets, a two-person category that year with Duvall for The Apostle, Peter Fonda and Dustin Hoffman for Wag the Dog; As Good As It Gets won Best Actor and Best Actress for Helen Hunt while Titanic won Best Picture, and everybody was fine with it when Jim Brooks was still one of the ten most important writer-directors.
The two Elliot Smith songs, Between the Bars and Miss Misery, one still not available on iTunes; his life went into a tailspin after the famous Academy Awards performance in the white suit where he seemed delicate and out of place, and the anecdote that he told anyone trash-talking Celine Dion to shut their mouth because she chilled him out before he went on.
Casey Affleck's I Hate LA shirt in the baseball scene, which one host owned as a kid and whose son is a year from growing into; the Boston accents are spectacular except Robin Williams, and Cole Hauser's is a little iffy in spots but he seems and looks like he is from Boston and carries the fuck-you attitude of the character.
The how-about-them-apples scene has aged incredibly, with the great ending and the callback you always forget is coming; Robin Williams's cardigans and things that don't match make him look like a widower who shops at Goodwill but still has some authority, and Affleck's clothes seem a little more expensive than they were, trying to look classier.
The interpersonal relationships between Damon and Affleck and Damon and Williams could be put in a movie from 1940 or 2018 and would still play.
The friendships are the easiest answer, mainly because of everything that happened afterward, so they are always connected forever; a case could be made for the how-about-them-apples scene, which people still say today and laugh at every time. — Shea Serrano
The apples line was apparently taken from Chinatown, the line Jack Nicholson has in that movie, so maybe Robert Towne wrote Good Will Hunting; I Swallowed a Bug, which Casey Affleck ad-libbed, was taken from Apocalypse Now; the dialogue has aged best because every line was on the tip of the tongue on rewatch, 60 lines recited while watching, which is unique and a testament to them sticking to their guns about their script.
You can understand why people suspected a Goldman rewrite because the movie is so obviously the sum of their love of movies: the playground fight is Mean Streets watched a thousand times, with Ordinary People and early Scorsese elsewhere; that Damon and Affleck stayed friends adds to it, this being their proxy movie.
What did Lecter say to make Miggs kill himself?; Is it okay to root for Hannibal Lecter?; Did Catherine Martin keep Precious?; Would you watch a 1997 Buffalo Bill prequel with Ted Levine?; Should Jodie Foster have done the Hannibal sequel?; Was Jodie Foster good in this movie?
Is it okay to root for Lecter: he is one of the five worst people the hosts have rooted for, they cheer when he attacks Charles Napier's character, Clarice tells her FBI roommate he would not come after her because he would find it rude, and he seems to attack only people he has a grudge against.
Did Catherine Martin keep Precious: she carries the dog out at the end after the bone-and-bucket Hail Mary, and the host thinks she kept it.
Would they watch a Buffalo Bill prequel with Ted Levine in 1997: yes, though the investigation of serial killers interests one host more than their origins; should Foster have done the Hannibal sequel: no, she knew to leave well enough alone.
Was Foster good: one host thinks she is great; the other, since learning Michelle Pfeiffer had turned the role down, watches imagining Pfeiffer, would be more scared and more convinced, and thinks Pfeiffer the better actress, perhaps a year or two old for it.
The rebuttal is that Clarice's background as a rural West Virginia sheriff's daughter fits Foster, while Pfeiffer seems like a Tequila Sunrise, Fabulous Baker Boys person; the accent is still judged not good enough, with the claim that Hopkins knew it, and the advice is never to do an accent unless you are Daniel Day Lewis.
The Pfeiffer backer, calling her a favorite actress, adds that Castaway would be better with her in the Helen Hunt part and admits to simply not being a big Jodie Foster fan; another voice asked for an opinion praises her rookie vulnerability, Julia Roberts is rejected as too much of a megastar against Foster's diminutive presence, and there were few great actress options at the time.
Earlier, during the nits, what Lecter told Miggs over six hours to make him kill himself was parked for this segment.
Putting Jessup on the stand; Caffey calling Jessup a son of a bitch in court; whether Joe Galloway was a terrible lawyer; who should have played Joe Galloway
Putting Jessup on the stand was insane: they gamble six months and their careers on a fake-out with the two airmen whom Sam almost fails to get to court in time, a huge bluff that, like Rounders, is fun to rewatch even knowing how it ends.
Cruise's 'Don't call me son. I'm a lawyer and an officer in the United States Navy, and you're under arrest, you son of a bitch' would not really happen in court, though another notes the formality had already gone once Nicholson was screaming his own threats.
Was Joe Galloway a terrible lawyer? A prepared list argues she is good: she knows what a code red is, a quote from her advisors calls her a hell of an investigator, and she memorizes extensive biographical details.
The list continues: she believes in due process, unlike Caffey's '12 years and out in six' deals, and at the Gitmo lunch she angers Jessup into admitting off the record that he condones code reds and will take any bait, which becomes the winning strategy.
Further points: being a lawyer is client services, she is not friends with the prosecution, she has the idea to put Jessup on the stand, and she is never held in contempt; she is not a litigator in a film about litigation as performance, so she gets no credit, but he would not win without her and she motivates him.
Non-legal points in her favor: her jeans are back in style, she has great taste in bar-and-grills such as the crab shack, her hair, the business suit she wears off duty on the first night with the tower logs and Chinese food, and Malcolm X glasses worn in one scene.
The 'twice as hard as you' dynamic is called a good foil for Cruise's character and an honest picture of a woman in that workplace, making her one of the best Sorkin female characters despite the disrespect; 'I strenuously object' is bad, but she earns credit for the 'exceptional lawyer' speech that pumps Cruise up, and a host wishes Ringer colleagues gave speeches like that.
The case against her: she is blamed for Downey, having befriended Aunt Ginny without learning Downey was not in the room; the reply is that Weinberg did witness prep, Caffey was lead counsel, and the defendants never volunteered anything they were not asked, which is when Cruise freaks out.
'Strenuously object' is her scarlet letter, before she was in The Scarlet Letter, along with saying 'we're going to win'; one panelist calls it a bad performance with Demi Moore miscast.
Julia Roberts is floated as better, though she could not have been cast for the same reason as Bacon's haircut; Roberts and Cruise never made a movie together; asked to split the blame 65 to 35 between Demi Moore and Sorkin or blame 1991, the answer is that it is majority Demi Moore's fault.
In a 2017 version the character could not just be stuck in middle-management paperwork; one suggestion flips it, making Caffey a woman and Joe Galloway a man.
Jodie Foster was also up for the role, with one other name forgotten; Foster with Cruise is mocked as having no chemistry, measured against McConaughey and Foster in Contact and Helen Hunt with Nicholson in As Good as It Gets.
The Galloway question is left unsolved but seeds are planted; with Julia Roberts getting every part back then, Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2 shape is suggested as a good alternative.
Helen Hunt and a candidate rendered by the transcript as ‘Elizabeth’s true’ are proposed and rejected.
Sandra Bullock is strongly endorsed, with Speed and While You Were Sleeping cited as making the timing feel natural.
An objection says Dorothy is too small a role for an established movie star and uses Julia Roberts as an example of someone who would not have taken it.
