Ajax's language and sexual assault (disputed); what is said to Mercy; Cleon's death; Fox's stunt double being thrown onto the tracks and never mentioned again
Ajax is simultaneously a great character and badly aged for his language and being a sexual assaulter.
The counterargument is that a movie about gangs who stalk the streets needs a bad guy, and Ajax contrasts with Swan's King Arthur moral code; a bad guy in a 1979 New York gang is plausible, though some of his words are hard to hear now, and what is said to Mercy is not great.
Cleon dying has aged terribly and hurts every time; the stunt double thrown onto the tracks and the character never being mentioned again is one host's vote.
The story recited: Michael Beck as Swan and Thomas Waits (as transcribed) as Fox were to be the two stars, but Fox's actor feuded with Walter Hill, who killed the character off midway, rewrote the last 45 minutes, and used a crew member with the same hair as a stunt double, seen from behind with Mercy before a cop throws him into the train; nobody later asks what happened to Fox the way they ask about Ajax.
The actor told the story at a 2015 reunion where the cast rode the subway to Coney; another host disliked his face in the zoom-in and was glad he died.
The death should have established the stakes of the all-night journey and made the arrival a relief, but it is so quick and so hamstrung together that it has no emotional payoff.
Today a studio would recast as with Eric Stoltz and Michael J. Fox in Back to the Future rather than concoct a stunt death; it also creates a hole when Swan returns to an empty station with no ambulances or police after a man was thrown in front of a train.
Why the Warriors run from police is debated: they are a gang in colors where they should not be, and the fire, the assassination and the DJ keep police on alert; starting the fire five stops down is called a smart move by the other gangs, and Masai is said to have been pulling the strings like Masai Uhiri (as transcribed).
Cleon; the Warriors' vests; Central Park in seventies movies; Luther; Barry DeVorzen's soundtrack; the gang DJ; the seventies prom couple scene; 'You guys are real good. The best'; the world building; Cyrus
Cleon, the original warlord who is killed after the Rogue in the leopard-print headpiece blames the Warriors, has more scenes in the uncut version; he dies under a pile of elbows from 25 guys, flicks Luther off him with an amazing move, and a Cleon prequel about the rise of the Warriors is wished for; the jackets and shirtless vests also hold up.
A vest with no shirt is never a win unless you are a professional wrestler. — Sean Fennessey
Others disagree about the vest, one joking about wearing a leather vest with sunscreen and phone pockets to the beach before admitting it is not serious; the vest is the part connected to most because of the Orphans scene, where Mercy goads the Orphans into demanding the Warriors remove their colors, which recalls the cuts in Sons of Anarchy that you die before taking off.
Central Park in seventies movies is creepy, empty and dangerous; Luther, the leader of the Rogues, is an over-the-top villain going for it, loved for having no reason for anything he does beyond 'because we can', and one host's son loves how over the top he is.
Whether villains need motivation splits the room: one says explaining a villain is a waste of time, citing the Joker, and two disagree and need a reason; Luther was one of only two actors one host recognized, from Commando, with Remar recognized as Raiden from Mortal Kombat 2.
The actor who plays Luther was purposefully recast by Walter Hill as Luther in 48 Hours, turning on Eddie Murphy's crew, and has been on Twin Peaks and in Spike Lee movies; Walter Hill hit a zone with this film and 48 Hours in how an action movie moves with music.
Barry DeVorzen's weird-guitar soundtrack has aged well, but ending on a big Joe Walsh song creates cognitive dissonance after a black gang beats the Rogues; in the movie's defense there is no hip hop yet in 1979, though Sugarhill Gang existed, and a hard funk record or Across 110th Street would make more sense.
The Orphans scene is too long but the one Orphan asleep who missed the meeting is pitied; the gang DJ is a great device for spreading information in coded language before texting and Twitter.
The seventies prom couple scene is weirdly effective because the film is about guys with no hope fighting all night to get back to the Wonder Wheel, the action-movie version of the end of The Graduate, with the couple looking at Mercy's dirty feet and Swan stopping her from fixing her hair.
'You guys are real good, the best' is a precursor to intentionally hokey, iconic moments like Carl Weathers and Schwarzenegger in Predator; the stilted dialogue is a purposeful comic-book, stentorian, Greek-tragedy theatricality, and nobody talks the way people actually talk. — Sean Fennessey
The world building has aged best for another host: an elaborate gang network with rules and systems that later films such as John Wick's assassin network build on, which is undeniably cool even for a viewer who does not get the Greek-tragedy part.
Cyrus has aged best: a charismatic figure offering hope whose plan makes no sense if you listen carefully, likened to how Trump got elected and to Obama's 2008 'yes we can', and his death four and a half minutes after meeting him is devastating. — Bill Simmons
Eddie Murphy: one host says yes, ahead of Beverly Hills Cop; the other thinks Cop was his Apex Mountain as a better overall performance carried alone, answered with the forty-and-twenty-five box score he puts up here; after Cop, without Nolte or Dan Aykroyd beside him, he and Michael Jackson were the two biggest stars in the world, and both films rank above Trading Places.
Nick Nolte: no; Blue Chips and Prince of Tides are floated, Prince of Tides for success, North Dallas 40 as probably his best performance since you believe he played in the NFL, plus Rich Man, Poor Man watched by fifty million, Cape Fear and Who Will Stop the Rain; a lot of really good work but nothing definitively incredible, so no apex.
Walter Hill: The Long Riders, his Western about the James gang from around the same time, is raised first, but this film is called very high and 'this one' is the answer given; San Francisco is a great movie character rarely maximized like this, with Mrs. Doubtfire, Pacific Heights, Dirty Harry and Bullitt as other San Francisco movies, and the film captures the city's old cow-town backwater quality.
Sonny Landham: no, Predator is his apex, cutting his chest with a knife and waiting for the predator, on the same bill as Schwarzenegger, Carl Weathers and Ventura, his political mentor; James Remar: one hundred percent yes, though one host's wife wanted Sex and the City named instead.
Remar is also great in The Warriors, and Gans has an ignominious ending, roughing up the female cop for no reason, which flips the audience from liking a badass to recoiling; he works constantly, turning up in What Lies Beneath at two in the morning; Olivia Brown's apex was Miami Vice; Frank McRae topped out here.
James Remar skipped sleep before shooting to look psychotic; Jack Cates inspired Sonny Crockett; two deleted scenes; Reggie Hammond was originally named Willie Biggs; the 1964 Cadillac is now owned by Vanilla Ice; Larry Gross's on-set diaries; Sonny Landham's career from adult films to Kentucky politics
James Remar often went without sleep before shooting to give Gans a more psychotic look, which the hosts believe, joking that it came from hanging out with Nick Nolte; one host lived in Remar's LA neighborhood in the early 2000s, saw him having coffee with his dog and always expected him to start shooting people; Jack Cates was apparently the inspiration for Sonny Crockett in Miami Vice, which now makes sense.
Two deleted scenes are mentioned, one with Cates and his girlfriend and an extended Roman's scene with Eddie Murphy dancing, possibly a third Busboys song; Reggie's bit confronting a man whispering to his 'wife' is quoted, and the Roman's bartender's 'come here often, Holmes' greeting is loved.
Reggie Hammond was initially named Willie Biggs until Eddie thought it too cliche and borderline racist and got it changed; the 1964 blue Cadillac has been restored, painted silver and is now owned by Vanilla Ice, which stuns the hosts; screenwriter Larry Gross kept diaries during the shoot that went online about ten years ago with many set stories.
The diaries stop after about five entries but reveal Sonny Landham as a maniac who had to be bailed out of jail, alongside crazy Nick Nolte stories; a Sonny Landham research subcategory follows: he plays Billy Bear, was a former pornographic film actor and moved to mainstream films via Walter Hill.
Landham's filmography is recited: a cop in The Warriors, then the really underrated Southern Comfort, then Poltergeist and 48 Hours in 1982, followed by Predator, Action Jackson and Lockup (as transcribed).
The Southern Comfort recommendation, telling anyone who has not seen it to check it out, is directed at the listeners. — Chris Ryan
He is good in Lockup; his character names are enjoyed, Hunter in Southern Comfort, Billy Soul in Predator (as transcribed), Billy Bear here, Mr. Quick in Action Jackson, and of his Lockup character name, a slur, the remark as transcribed is 'So that one still aged well', tone unresolved; he later ran for office in Kentucky several times, once for governor and once against Mitch McConnell as a libertarian Senate candidate, and died this year.
Alec Baldwin was the first choice to play Richard Kimble; he had also been first offered Ford's Patriot Games role, which suggests Baldwin had more juice than Ford in 1992-93.
Baldwin reportedly wanted control of his career and too much money and did not want to be a franchise pawn; Patriot Games is contrasted with Hunt for Red October.
A correction: this was not the end of Ford's heyday because Air Force One was still ahead; Six Days, Seven Nights, overshadowed by a controversy around its co-star, is called the real end.
Michael Douglas, Kevin Costner and Andy Garcia were also considered for Kimble; only Costner is found believable because Kimble needs something wholesome, while Douglas and Baldwin seem like they might have done it.
Walter Hill wanted to direct with Nick Nolte, who thought he was too old; one participant would have loved a Walter Hill version but thinks it worked out.
