The blood-bank threat became a durable personal catchphrase; its long pause, monotone delivery and dramatic musical punctuation are celebrated. — Bill Simmons
The blood-bank line is reaffirmed; a personal theory imagines Seagal inventing its final phrase as an ad-lib, without claiming documented proof. — Kyle Brandt
Frank Dux's claimed 329-0 Kumite record was disproved by the Los Angeles Times; Sheldon Lettich says Dux's tall tales inspired the script and a corroborating witness later recanted; Dux was fight coordinator and trained Van Damme for three months; Kowloon Walled City was later demolished; Van Damme does six splits; the knocked-out tooth was real; Paco was Muay Thai champion Paulo Tocha and Swan Paredes actor Michel Qissi became Tong Po; the arcade game is Karate Champ; Mortal Kombat drew on the film
Frank Dukes' (as transcribed) résumé, shown at the end of the film, claimed 329 Kumite matches from 1975 to 1980, undefeated, with 36 consecutive knockouts; the internet is full of doubt, a Los Angeles Times story a few months after release disproved everything, and a trophy he said was awarded to him turned out to have been made down the block from his house.
He also said he was in the CIA and his father in the Mossad; co-writer Sheldon Ledich (as transcribed), one of the two writers, is quoted saying he knew Dukes for months, that most of his tales turned out to be bullshit, but the Kumite stories sounded like a great movie.
Dukes' real mistake was claiming it happened to him instead of pitching it as a movie idea, since he could have written 25 martial arts films; one story has him saying the film toned it down and the real fights happened on a temple roof with tiles cracking underfoot; that kind of fabrication only worked pre-internet, or if you are running for president.
Lettich (transcribed 'Letitch') is also quoted about Richard Bender, who swore he attended the Kumite and years later confessed Dukes coached his story; photos of Dukes do not look like a fifteenth-degree ninjutsu expert who killed for the CIA, and he is clearly what Steven Seagal later became; he was the film's fight coordinator and put Van Damme through a three-month training program.
The film was shot inside Kowloon Walled City, which was later knocked down entirely, possibly for an airport; cursory research says it was a constant fire hazard associated with crime where fugitives could hide; the hosts joke Janice's Atlantic story on the Kumite got it torn down.
How many splits Van Damme does: four are named, the drawn-and-quartered device, the temple roof, the chairs and the Pumala fight, a trailing fifth is counted without being named, and being dragged by Pumala makes six; the jump over Chong Li in the air is proposed as a seventh but ruled not to count, so the answer is six.
The fighter elbowed in the mouth really was knocked unconscious and lost teeth, and it was kept in the film; Bolo was in Enter the Dragon; Paco was played by Paolo Tocha (as transcribed), a Muay Thai champion; Michael Kissy (as transcribed), who played Swan Paredes, the broken-leg guy, went on to play Tong Po in Kickboxer, because in Thailand they could not find a local for the part and put makeup on him.
The arcade game played is Karate Champ from 1984, and the idea that martial-arts skill translates to the game is enjoyed; Mortal Kombat took huge inspiration from the film, with Johnny Cage the obvious character, and game creator John Tobias is quoted as wanting to make a gritty game based on it.
The opening credits are loved: the music sets it up, Bolo Young (as transcribed) as Chong Li gets the last-billed credit shine while kicking giant ice blocks (how long does an ice block take to prepare and hang?), there is a terrible cut to the tree-chopping coconuts, a monkey-style fighter does MMA in front of torch-holding island natives, Ogre as Ray Jackson hears you can get killed in the Kumite, and a giant smiling bear-hug guy breaks a man's back over his knee; it is called powerful storytelling that introduces every piece before the arena is readied.
Young JVD training blindfolded and the rope device, written down as a 'rope Jesus cross', are rewatchable; the real Frank Deuce (as transcribed) said the drawn-and-quartered device was real and used on him; the hosts wonder what it would do to a normal person, note the film implies children were forced into splits, and that Kickboxer does the same thing lying down; the mentor is borrowed from seven other movies including Enter the Dragon.
The small scene where JVD honors his invitation by breaking the bottom brick of a five-brick stack is a favorite 'show how cool this guy is' moment; Ray Jackson reacts like he unwrapped a plasma TV, Chong Li is not impressed, the low-angle shot of Van Damme's gigantic eyes convinces one host he really did it, and 'brick not hit back' is recalled; nobody can explain the physics beyond a transfer of energy.
Asked to compare Van Damme breaking the brick to Eleven from Stranger Things moving things, the answer is that Van Damme is far more impressive because the power is embodied in him, with no cutting-edge science experiments or interdimensional forces. — Jason Concepcion
Eleven is said to have had multi-billion-dollar weapons-program help while Van Damme is all him; the hosts skip past the fact that he hit the top brick yet only the bottom one broke, do a Stranger Things impression, and wonder why Eleven cannot telekinetically hold her nosebleed in or carry a handkerchief.
The first-round fight montage is almost unfair to call rewatchable: a council of officials whose link to the Black Dragon Fighting Society is unclear, the ring that bends down, six minutes of fights, and Ray Jackson winning his first bout then taunting Chong Li, which one host calls a tactical error (finish the job) and another defends as setting the tone since Chong Li talked trash first after the brick; it presages the Mountain and the Viper from Game of Thrones.
Whether Ray Jackson should have been named Ray Jackson is debated: he seems to be from a mountain state like Wyoming, 'Sully' is rejected as not strong enough, and he does no MMA moves, just brute strength; JVD's 12-second knockout gets Ray's 'first round of Kumite, broke the world record' line; the song 'Fight to Survive' is rated behind 'You're the Best' by Joe Esposito.
The later-round montage: Chong Li crushes Swan Paredes, Jao Gomez (as transcribed) does a slow-motion throat slit and is beaten in about five seconds and kicked off the mat; the hosts ask how anyone keeps time with no clock or stopwatch, and how 12.2 reaches the scoreboard faster than Fenway Park posts runs.
The smiling bear-hug guy beats the crawling fighter, who makes the mistake of closing the distance, and JVD's revenge is called probably the second-best fight in the film: the slow-motion stomach punch, the shake-off, then the finish; the hosts joke there was no CGI, he really hit him, and imagine the one-take set conversation; the giant's name is Pumala.
Chong Li versus Ray Jackson is tough to watch, like Goose dying in Top Gun; celebrating was a terrible idea when one shove would have pushed Chong Li off the edge, and the shouted 'he's dead' is enjoyed; Van Damme's 'No, no!' while held back by a 5'7" man after punching through five bricks is called the Oscar reel; Ray looks murdered Apollo Creed style, and the earlier brick-with-the-head scene foreshadows his hard skull.
Semifinal gambling lines: Chong Li about a minus-600 favorite, both finalists massive favorites with the top three fastest knockouts in Kumite history; Dukes versus Paco is a wonderful fight, with Paco's Muay Thai leg-revving compared to Vince Carter starting a motorcycle and a dancing vibe in the shoulders; one host says Paco is the guy he pretended to be with his sisters.
Chong Li killing a guy: the silent ref's disgust is praised, there appear to be no rules beyond quitting and falling off the stage, the crowd and council turn their backs; Chong Li ratchets it up every fight with Dukes the final target, is a Darth Vader figure on screen about seven minutes who casts a shadow over the film, like how WWE uses Brock Lesnar; 'you are next' may be dubbed, as every line of his might be.
In the final, the blinding powder is guessed to be a salt pill and whether he went fully blind is debated; the slow-motion freak-out is the moment Van Damme might figure out acting, a pure emotional beat of a man cheated like Tim Duncan in Game 6 of 2013; nobody official saw the cheat; the slow-motion is good for an era that had not figured it out, probably the most expensive day with one special Hong Kong camera.
The comeback is one of the better sports-movie comebacks; the hospital scene with Ray's comical bloody bandage, the Harley-Davidson bandana returned, 'anytime, anyplace, anywhere,' the lady friend near tears and 'I love you, my friend' is a genuine moment in one of the worst-acted movies of the eighties, more emotional than anything Steven Seagal did; the hosts wonder what the set was like when they suddenly turned into De Niro and Pacino in Heat.
The three picks: one host's favorite scene is the hospital but his most rewatchable is Chong Li killing a guy; another goes with any of the fight montages, effectively a five-way tie, and settles on the final fight as iconic; the movie knows what people want, quick backstory, the different fighting styles, Van Damme in a Speedo.
Going a different way from both others, the pick is the introduction of Chong Li for his first fight: his name on the cards, the bad-guy sound, him rising from his seat while Victor Lin downloads his stats to Van Damme, never defeated, fastest kill, a man kicked in the throat who died on the platform; the scene sticks the landing on every part, and a good character introduction is loved more than anything else in this kind of movie. — Shea Serrano
The mustaches, all real and magnificent: an hour and a half in, one host wonders why nobody wears hats and mustaches now and says producer Craig should have one right now; another cannot grow one, Kurt Russell can grow incredible facial hair, and a Christmas challenge is set to grow a Tombstone mustache or goatee for the fans.
Powers Booth and Val Kilmer actually have a soul patch with a mustache rather than goatees; the challenged host is in, even though a mustache makes him look like a dirtbag cop from 1974, which is when the challenger feels most like his friend, like being friends with Gene Hackman.
The crazy loaded cast, already discussed, and Dana Delaney, whose good career felt like it could have been better; a China Beach fan likens her to Carla Gugino, first said as 'Carlo Gugino' and mocked as a Fellini actor and the Godfather toll-booth gunman, as a why-aren't-you-a-bigger-star actress, asking why Demi Moore was so much bigger.
Delaney had a bigger career than Gugino, whom everyone loves, but should have been an A list star; this was the one time a big movie made her the female lead, Exit to Eden being the joke about where it went wrong, and she remains one host's second-favorite actress in the film.
The 1880s Wild Wild West world-building: liquor, brothels, gambling, hats and mustaches; the Godfather tone Russell talked about shows in Wyatt moving in, taking over the faro game (transcribed 'Pharaoh') at the Oriental and winning the deeds to mines, a man who stands for law and order screwing people out of things because fame left the Earps with nothing to show for it.
The film is called the bridge from John Ford Westerns to Deadwood, one of the first Westerns full of people cursing each other out and then shooting somebody in the head; the blood in the Bill Paxton scene and Sam Elliott being told he will never use his arm again were new and intense for a Western.
The closing credits, four solid minutes of the cast walking in their outfits for no reason like a Vanity Fair photo shoot, are unintentionally funny but cool, compared to a Countdown segment one host once shot with Jalen.
That era of Val Kilmer, all the way through Heat, is savored like old Fab Five tapes from Michigan: it did not totally work out, but if you could bottle this there was something special, and he really should have been a bigger star.
Why the film is special: you can watch the other actors recognize what Kilmer is doing and change their performances to elevate his, making themselves more buttoned-down and austere, solid American oak, while he is free jazz, a coughing, sweating, feverish, green Byron or Shelley figure; the Kansas Earps versus Georgia Doc contrast is credited, with colleague Amanda Dobbins invoked as the poetic Georgian, and tuberculosis explaining the rest.
Kurt Russell's Wyatt is looking for a wife who gets him and stokes his soul, but the real partner is Holliday, from the first 'how the hell are you' line; the friendship is the love story at the center of the movie, an amazing portrayal of it.
Revisiting the 1993 Best Supporting Actor field (Tommy Lee Jones, DiCaprio, Ralph Fiennes, Malkovich, Pete Postlewaite), it is amazing Kilmer was not nominated, though the category was stacked; Malkovich is good in In the Line of Fire but not as memorable, and with the wished-for five-year Oscar delay Kilmer gets nominated.
The film was a modest hit that took on a new life: one host is not sure he saw it in theaters despite seeing everything then, another definitely did over Christmas break when movies were the only thing to do, and another watched it maybe 25 times in a friend's basement because it was always on TV.
The tuberculosis vaccine has aged best, in the sense that the film shows how much having tuberculosis sucked: Doc turns green, coughs blood, is insulted as a 'lunger' by everyone, and keeps smoking and drinking whiskey around the clock until the doctor orders no more whiskey, cigarettes, sex or gambling.
Joanna Pacula, whose name nobody can pronounce, is the last pick: she was around for a while as a why-not-bigger actress and then just never made it, her credits being Marked for Death (transcribed 'Mark for Death') with Steven Seagal, Tombstone and My Giant; while her credits are looked up, Kilmer's 'I have not even begun to defile myself' is performed, his accent likened to Yosemite Sam reading Oscar Wilde, ridiculous but perfect.
Asked again later, Billy Bob Thornton is one host's answer; another sticks with the mustaches.
The script was written in 1990 with Sly Stallone and Arnold Schwarzenegger in mind as the leads; the hosts agree that would have been horrible given the bodies, faces and accents, wondering how the vocal box would handle Arnold's or Sly's accent.
Joel Silver then optioned it wanting Michael Douglas and Harrison Ford, which some think would have been incredible but more like a sexual thriller going to a weird place; this detours into Michael Douglas's publicly stated claim about the sexual cause of his throat cancer, which one host insists is a true story to Google and others call a suburban legend and a humble brag.
Johnny Depp was in until he found out it was not a hockey movie, treated as true because it is on the internet, with jokes about whether he thought Pirates of the Caribbean or Edward Scissorhands were hockey movies too; Bruce Willis and Alc Baldwin (as transcribed) were teamed up at one point, which might actually have worked since Baldwin would dial it up.
The funniest pairing, apparently a real thing, was Van Damme and Steven Seagal, two of the greatest Russian moles America has to offer.
Would most have wanted to see Stallone and Schwarzenegger, because it does not make any sense and he needs to see that. — Jason Concepcion
Would want Douglas and Ford, who would have had so much contempt for the material, unable to believe they needed another ranch in Montana this badly. — Chris Ryan
Goes with Van Damme and Seagal (as transcribed 'Van Dammen to go'). — Shea Serrano
The others knew that pick was coming and call it the worst one of all of them.
Mark Wahlberg turned down the role of Castor's brother Pollux; the movie is better with Wahlberg if he is dialing it up, and Pollux's weird hairdo already looks like Wahlberg's Gambler character; Julianna Margulis (as transcribed) turned down the Gina Gershon part because she was filming ER, probably a good choice at that moment, since Gershon does not go around asking whether people saw her in Face Off.
