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“It’s not finished until you type it up”

Bill Simmons: “It’s not finished until you type it up” is offered as a life lesson and compared with the idea that movies are abandoned rather than finished.

The film

Zodiac (2007)

Directed by David Fincher · Crime

157 minutes

Cast

Selected cast credits · Film reference

Jake Gyllenhaal Robert Graysmith
Mark Ruffalo Inspector Dave Toschi
Robert Downey Jr. Paul Avery
Anthony Edwards Inspector Bill Armstrong
Brian Cox Melvin Belli
Charles Fleischer Bob Vaughn
Zach Grenier Mel Nicolai
Philip Baker Hall Sherwood Morrill
Elias Koteas Sergeant Jack Mulanax
James LeGros Detective George Bawart
Donal Logue Captain Ken Narlow
John Carroll Lynch Arthur Leigh Allen
Dermot Mulroney Captain Marty Lee
Chloë Sevigny Melanie Graysmith
John Terry Charles Thieriot
June Diane Raphael Carol Toschi
Ciara Moriarty Darlene Ferrin
Adam Goldberg Duffy Jennings
Tom Verica Jim Dunbar
Lee Norris Mike Mageau
Jimmi Simpson Older Mike Mageau
Joel Bissonnette Inspector Kracke
John Getz Templeton Peck
John Mahon Captain Gillette
Matt Winston John Allen
Jules Bruff Catherine Allen
John Ennis Terry Pascoe
Patrick Scott Lewis Bryan Hartnell
Pell James Cecelia Shepard
Clea DuVall Linda del Buono
Zachary Sauers Aaron Graysmith
Micah Sauers David Graysmith
Candy Clark Carol Fisher
Paul Schulze Sandy Panzarella
John Hemphill Donald Cheney
Ed Setrakian Al Hyman
Bob Stephenson Zodiac 3
John Lacy Zodiac 4

Everything from the episode

In the order the hosts got to it. Open a row for the discussion.

1:05:58

The Craig Century Club

57 minutes over Craig’s 100-minute ideal; about 15 minutes could be cut

57 minutes over Craig’s 100-minute ideal; about 15 minutes could be cut

The panel proposes a new category here.

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 01:05:58Read transcript
  • The hosts explicitly introduce The Craig Century Club as a new category for 2026.
  • The award measures runtime against Craig Horlbeck’s 100-minute ideal.
  • Zodiac lands 57 minutes above that benchmark. — Craig Horlbeck
  • The panel believes roughly 15 minutes could be removed without imposing a 100-minute cut. — Craig Horlbeck
1:09:27

Roger Ebert's review

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:09:27Read transcript
1:12:36

Most Rewatchable Scene

The Arthur Leigh Allen interrogation

The Arthur Leigh Allen interrogation

In the discussion (15)
Approx. transcript time · 01:12:36Read transcript
  • The Lovers Lane opening murder and its flashlight-on-gun image are nominated. — Bill Simmons
  • The Vallejo fireworks opening is nominated. — Bill Simmons
  • Graysmith reading the decoded letter as Paul Avery watches is nominated. — Bill Simmons
  • The Lake Berryessa bluff murder is called one of the most unsettling murder scenes.
  • Melvin Belli’s live television appearance is nominated.
  • The Ione Skye car sequence is nominated. — Bill Simmons
  • Downey and Gyllenhaal’s newsroom and bar exchanges are nominated.
  • The Arthur Leigh Allen interrogation is the final favorite. — Bill Simmons
  • The search of Allen’s trailer is nominated. — Bill Simmons
  • The basement sequence is nominated, though one host says repeat viewings reduce its impact.
  • Graysmith’s late-night visit to Toschi is nominated. — Bill Simmons
  • The Ace Hardware stare-down is nominated.
  • Toschi and Armstrong processing the taxi-cab murder scene is nominated. — Chris Ryan
  • Graysmith and Toschi’s first meeting is nominated. — Sean Fennessey
  • The final Door-to-Door breakfast is called a favorite except for the interrogation. — Sean Fennessey
1:26:31

The most 2007 thing

Folgers coffee; difficulty coordinating investigations across cities

Folgers coffee; difficulty coordinating investigations across cities

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:26:31Read transcript
  • Folgers coffee is the primary 1970s marker. — Bill Simmons
  • Coordinating investigations between cities is cited as another 1970s marker. — Sean Fennessey
  • The film is discussed as Gen X art reckoning with a chaotic late-1960s and 1970s childhood landscape. — Sean Fennessey
1:29:09

Steven Seagal shitting on himself award for most unbelievable anecdote from the actual film shoot

Fincher’s repeated takes and exacting treatment of Gyllenhaal, Downey, and Ruffalo supply several production-shoot an...

Fincher’s repeated takes and exacting treatment of Gyllenhaal, Downey, and Ruffalo supply several production-shoot anecdotes.

In the discussion (6)
Approx. transcript time · 01:29:09Read transcript
1:34:21

The Dennis Peck Relationship Test

Fails: Graysmith’s obsession would quickly break his marriage to Melanie

Fails: Graysmith’s obsession would quickly break his marriage to Melanie

The panel proposes a new category here.

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:34:21Read transcript
  • The panel explicitly proposes The Dennis Peck Relationship Test, named for Richard Gere’s Internal Affairs character. — Bill Simmons
  • The test asks whether the featured relationship would survive. — Bill Simmons
  • Graysmith’s fixation is judged likely to destroy the relationship.
1:35:45

What’s Aged the Best?

True-crime culture, period San Francisco, Downey, the protagonist shift, Graysmith’s internet-like obsession, Fincher...

True-crime culture, period San Francisco, Downey, the protagonist shift, Graysmith’s internet-like obsession, Fincher’s catalog, and several craft details

In the discussion (14)
Approx. transcript time · 01:35:45Read transcript
  • Chloë Sevigny’s humor and deliberately ordinary styling are praised.
  • The rise of true-crime culture gives the film more resonance. — Bill Simmons
  • Late-1960s and early-1970s San Francisco is nominated as an enduring setting. — Bill Simmons
  • Fincher’s San Francisco feels haunted and geographically unmistakable.
  • Downey’s mutterings and banter with Gyllenhaal are praised. — Chris Ryan
  • The tonal and procedural shift from Toschi to the isolated Graysmith is praised. — Chris Ryan
  • The unsolvability of mundane tragedy is treated as a lasting subject. — Sean Fennessey
  • Graysmith’s external obsession anticipates internet behavior. — Sean Fennessey
  • Robert Downey Jr.’s comeback context is nominated. — Bill Simmons
  • Zodiac’s place in Fincher’s catalog is nominated. — Bill Simmons
  • Paul Avery’s waterside home is praised.
  • The Chronicle newsroom recreation is praised for capturing an empty morning newspaper office. — Bill Simmons
  • The soundtrack’s gradual move into yacht rock is praised. — Bill Simmons
  • Downey’s on-screen smoking is praised.
1:45:55

The Great Shot Gordo Award for Most Cinematic Shot

Lake Berryessa, the opening fireworks, a phone booth, the Golden Gate Bridge, and rebuilt San Francisco compete for t...

Lake Berryessa, the opening fireworks, a phone booth, the Golden Gate Bridge, and rebuilt San Francisco compete for the most cinematic shot.

In the discussion (7)
Approx. transcript time · 01:45:55Read transcript
  • The opening city-and-fireworks image is nominated. — Chris Ryan
  • Graysmith and Melanie in the rain-lit phone booth are nominated. — Chris Ryan
  • The Zodiac cresting the hill at Lake Berryessa is nominated. — Sean Fennessey
  • The camera holding on Hartnell during the stabbing is nominated. — Sean Fennessey
  • The cut to the woman’s torso during the stabbing is nominated. — Sean Fennessey
  • An aerial Golden Gate Bridge shot is nominated.
  • The digital reconstruction of the Embarcadero is nominated.
1:48:33

The Slow Ride / Kid Cudi – Pursuit of Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop

Hurdy Gurdy Man leads a field including Inner City Blues and Bernadette.

Hurdy Gurdy Man leads a field including Inner City Blues and Bernadette.

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:48:33Read transcript
1:49:06

The David Fincher Award for “Wow, This Director May Have Been a Fucking Lunatic”

Digitally adding knuckle hair to Jake Gyllenhaal’s hands

Digitally adding knuckle hair to Jake Gyllenhaal’s hands

The panel proposes a new category here.

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:49:06Read transcript
1:49:40

Sean Fennessey Award for Stealth Homage That Gives Every Movie Nerd a Criterion Orgasm

Memories of Murder

Memories of Murder

In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 01:49:40Read transcript
1:51:35

Is There a Porn Parody of This Movie?

The Zodiac Killer starring John Holmes

The Zodiac Killer starring John Holmes

Flex pick · Craig Horlbeck

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 01:51:35Read transcript
  • The category asks whether the movie has a porn parody. — Craig Horlbeck
  • The title The Zodiac Killer and John Holmes are identified.
  • The premise casts Holmes as a cop hunting a killer.
  • Its 63-minute runtime is compared with the Century Club benchmark.
1:52:32

The Vincent Chase Award: Are We Sure This Character Is Actually Good at Their Job?

The Zodiac is judged surprisingly bad at his job because victims survive and he leaves conspicuous clues.

The Zodiac is judged surprisingly bad at his job because victims survive and he leaves conspicuous clues.

Flex pick · Craig Horlbeck

In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 01:52:32Read transcript
1:53:16

The Butch’s Girlfriend Award for the Weakest Link in the Film

Avery’s Riverside detour, the missing first murder, and reliance on Donald Cheney’s claims are the main weak-link con...

Avery’s Riverside detour, the missing first murder, and reliance on Donald Cheney’s claims are the main weak-link concerns.

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 01:53:16Read transcript
1:56:40

What’s Aged the Worst?

The abrupt four-year title card, too little Downey–Gyllenhaal time, their fictionalized friendship, Anthony Edwards’s...

The abrupt four-year title card, too little Downey–Gyllenhaal time, their fictionalized friendship, Anthony Edwards’s wig, and the film’s persuasive Arthur Leigh Allen framing

In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 01:56:40Read transcript
1:59:16

The Rose From Titanic “Sneaky Suck” Award

Melanie Graysmith is nominated for “sneaky suck,” but the panel disputes it: one case says she knew from the first da...

Melanie Graysmith is nominated for “sneaky suck,” but the panel disputes it: one case says she knew from the first date that Robert was obsessive, while the defense calls her reasonable and extraordinarily patient.

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 01:59:16Read transcript
  • Melanie Graysmith is nominated for the sneaky-suck award. — Bill Simmons
  • The nomination is immediately disputed as she is called reasonable and cool. — Bill Simmons
  • The case against her is that Robert revealed his obsessive behavior on their first date, so she knew what she was entering. — Bill Simmons
  • The defense notes she is the film’s only substantial female character and is written with extraordinary patience in a male institutional world. — Sean Fennessey
2:01:21

The Rick Dalton Award for the Greatest Fucking Acting I’ve Ever Seen

Robert Downey Jr.’s houseboat performance

Robert Downey Jr.’s houseboat performance

Flex pick · Bill Simmons

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 02:01:21Read transcript
  • Downey’s delivery of “somebody should write a book” is singled out.
  • His physical acting on the houseboat is praised.
  • The scene’s exposed, disheveled presentation strengthens the performance.
2:01:50

The Stephen A. Smith Hottest Take Award

Zodiac as the greatest American crime film; Zodiac as the greatest serial-killer brand

Zodiac as the greatest American crime film; Zodiac as the greatest serial-killer brand

In the discussion (7)
Approx. transcript time · 02:01:50Read transcript
  • A modern Zodiac case would be flattened into partisan internet discourse.
  • Zodiac is proposed as the greatest American crime film. — Sean Fennessey
  • Its attention to the actual work of solving crime distinguishes it. — Sean Fennessey
  • The Zodiac is proposed as the greatest serial killer by legacy and elusiveness. — Bill Simmons
  • The self-created name and communications are cited as a uniquely strong gimmick. — Bill Simmons
  • Modern DNA and cameras are said to make serial killing harder. — Bill Simmons
  • Taking credit for unrelated crimes may have distorted the investigation. — Sean Fennessey
2:07:46

Casting What-Ifs

Gary Oldman, Orlando Bloom, Brad Pitt, and Jennifer Aniston appear in a detailed casting history.

Gary Oldman, Orlando Bloom, Brad Pitt, and Jennifer Aniston appear in a detailed casting history.

In the discussion (6)
Approx. transcript time · 02:07:46Read transcript
2:09:32

The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award

No single winner: John Terry, Charles Fleischer, and other veteran supporting actors

No single winner: John Terry, Charles Fleischer, and other veteran supporting actors

In the discussion (6)
Approx. transcript time · 02:09:32Read transcript
2:11:24

The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance

Clea DuVall

Clea DuVall

In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 02:11:24Read transcript
2:12:16

Recasting Couch

Reject Michael Keaton for Anthony Edwards; John Slattery for the ensemble

Reject Michael Keaton for Anthony Edwards; John Slattery for the ensemble

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 02:12:16Read transcript
2:14:43

The Action Is the Juice Award for Best Milking of the Moment

John Carroll Lynch going toe to toe with Mark Ruffalo

John Carroll Lynch going toe to toe with Mark Ruffalo

Flex pick · Sean Fennessey

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 02:14:43Read transcript
2:14:57

The Dan Campbell Scale for “Holy Shit, Are They Really Going for It Right Now?”

The basement scene

The basement scene

Flex pick · Sean Fennessey

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 02:14:57Read transcript
2:15:19

Half-Assed Internet Research

Period reconstruction, digital photography, a 1972 sting film, repeated straw takes, Ruffalo’s deal, and a cocktail

Period reconstruction, digital photography, a 1972 sting film, repeated straw takes, Ruffalo’s deal, and a cocktail

In the discussion (7)
Approx. transcript time · 02:15:19Read transcript
  • Production used period photos to recreate streets, cars, and the number of Volkswagen Beetles. — Bill Simmons
  • The Thomson Viper digital camera is discussed as an early major digital-production choice. — Bill Simmons
  • A 1972 Zodiac movie was reportedly screened as part of an attempted sting. — Bill Simmons
  • The filmmakers behind that movie hoped the killer would attend. — Bill Simmons
  • Downey’s straw trick reportedly required 26 takes. — Bill Simmons
  • Ruffalo recounts a blunt studio negotiation over his casting. — Bill Simmons
  • The movie’s cocktail recipe is enumerated and judged unappealing.
2:17:56

Apex Mountain

David Fincher (creative apex disputed); Mark Ruffalo as a movie detective; John Carroll Lynch; Zodiac within Fincher’...

David Fincher (creative apex disputed); Mark Ruffalo as a movie detective; John Carroll Lynch; Zodiac within Fincher’s filmography

In the discussion (10)
Approx. transcript time · 02:17:56Read transcript
2:26:44

Cruise or Hanks?

Split choice: Tom Hanks and Tom Cruise

Split choice: Tom Hanks and Tom Cruise

In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 02:26:44Read transcript
  • The category is introduced as “Cruise or Hanks.”
  • One audible choice favors Hanks.
  • Another audible choice favors Cruise, followed by agreement that Cruise is fun in the movie.
  • Cruise and Hanks are each tested as Graysmith and Toschi, with concern that either recasting loses Ruffalo. — Bill Simmons
  • The panel explicitly says it does not really have to choose.
2:28:27

Scorsese or Spielberg?

Split: Scorsese; Spielberg (Bill favors Scorsese)

Split: Scorsese; Spielberg (Bill favors Scorsese)

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 02:28:27Read transcript
  • The panel runs Scorsese or Spielberg as a named category. — Bill Simmons
  • A Spielberg version is argued for through procedural clarity. — Bill Simmons
  • A Scorsese version is argued for through obsession and moral decay. — Sean Fennessey
  • No unanimous choice is reached. — Bill Simmons
2:30:49

Picking Nits

Meetings, the roadside sequence, a clue, detective conduct, food history, and Herb Caen produce distinct nitpicks.

Meetings, the roadside sequence, a clue, detective conduct, food history, and Herb Caen produce distinct nitpicks.

In the discussion (6)
Approx. transcript time · 02:30:49Read transcript
  • The number and arrangement of cartoonist meetings are questioned. — Bill Simmons
  • Ione Skye pulling over for the stranger is questioned.
  • The Narlow clue is questioned.
  • Detectives interacting so freely with a prime suspect is questioned. — Sean Fennessey
  • Penne alla vodka is flagged as a possible historical error. — Sean Fennessey
  • The handling of Herb Caen is questioned.
2:34:20

Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake

Mindhunter as the prestige-TV version

Mindhunter as the prestige-TV version

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 02:34:20Read transcript
  • The category is introduced with sequel, prequel, prestige TV, and all-Black-cast options. — Bill Simmons
  • Mindhunter is given as the prestige-TV realization. — Bill Simmons
2:34:55

Just One Oscar

David Fincher

David Fincher

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 02:34:55Read transcript
2:35:26

Probably Unanswerable Questions

Who the Zodiac was, why police did not begin with people known to victims, what non-work obsession could consume a li...

Who the Zodiac was, why police did not begin with people known to victims, what non-work obsession could consume a life, whether Graysmith saw money in the project, and how a 1970s handwriting expert established authority

In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 02:35:26Read transcript
  • Who was the Zodiac killer? — Bill Simmons
  • Why do police in serial-killer stories fail to begin with people the victims knew? — Bill Simmons
  • What non-work subject could someone pursue so obsessively that they would throw their life away?
  • Did Graysmith eventually see that his obsession could make money? — Bill Simmons
  • What qualified a 1970s handwriting expert, and what made one better than another?
2:39:50

What Piece of Memorabilia Would You Want From This Movie?

The I Am Not Paul Avery button

The I Am Not Paul Avery button

In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 02:39:50Read transcript
2:40:42

The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson

“It’s not finished until you type it up”; keep investigating even at the cost of family and sanity if Fincher may ada...

“It’s not finished until you type it up”; keep investigating even at the cost of family and sanity if Fincher may adapt it (sarcastic)

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 02:40:42Read transcript
  • “It’s not finished until you type it up” is offered as a life lesson and compared with the idea that movies are abandoned rather than finished. — Bill Simmons
  • A sarcastic second lesson says never stop a murder investigation, even if it costs family and sanity, because it might lead to a David Fincher movie. — Bill Simmons
2:41:21

Best Double Feature

Dirty Harry
In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 02:41:21Read transcript
2:43:23

Who Won the Movie?

David Fincher

David Fincher

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 02:43:23Read transcript
  • Three audible responses affirm David Fincher as the winner.
  • The Zodiac killer is raised afterward as an alternative because he escaped and the film burnishes his myth.
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