The hosts say Keanu Reeves was originally set to play Chris and lost the part when Kilmer fit it around Batman Forever; one host would totally go for Keanu. — Bill Simmons
The hosts say Ted Levine was offered Waingro and turned it down to avoid typecasting after Buffalo Bill; one host can't fathom it, the other thinks he would like that movie more. — Bill Simmons
The hosts say Voight initially turned down Nate, saying others could do it better, until Mann insisted. — Bill Simmons
An internet claim that the actress later in Mann's Miami Vice refused Justine unless the script was translated into Mandarin is called half-fast and fishy. — Bill Simmons
The Thief star lamented on a 1998 Thief DVD commentary with Mann that he had no role in Heat; the hosts say he should have played Nate. — Bill Simmons
Offered the Thief star as Nate plus Keanu as Chris, one host would rather keep Kilmer, whose unpredictable performance he loves. — Bill Simmons
Nominees are Ja Rule, whose acting one host insists was actually perfect, and Ted Levine; the running argument over whether Vin Diesel is horrible or great resurfaces, with Find Me Guilty cited in his defense and the retort that he is fun to pray to rather than to make fun of.
The winner is the other police sergeant, not Ted Levine, who dials it up into almost a parody of every action-movie police sergeant; an impression of his 'if we don't get this' speech is performed and recognized as a character seen many times before.
One host calls it a no-brainer: Ted Levine, Brian's boss, who played Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs and was in Heat; the other had never recognized him and is incredulous, so a Buffalo Bill line is imitated to prove it, with the explanation that he simply carries more weight here.
The other host votes Hector, whose actor's real name is given as Noel (as transcribed) with the surname garbled; the actor looks and acts exactly the same in every role, all of them Training Day type parts set in the same area, so it is probably the same guy; the joke is that Michael Pena plays Hector, Vince and anyone else you ask about in 2019.
The case for Demme: he bridged late-70s and 80s independent filmmaking with a subversive yet entertaining genre blockbuster, the reason something new appears on every rewatch, aided by his regular cinematographer Tack Fujimoto (as transcribed), who shot Pretty in Pink and Ferris Bueller; Demme had recently died.
After a joke answer naming Miggs's actor, the case for Hopkins is that his would be among the first performances named in any bar argument about the most memorable ever.
The Demme backer answers "You're not going to get any argument from me", just wanted to shout Demme out, expected the other to have Hopkins, and calls it "a 1A, 1B thing".
What did Lecter say to make Miggs kill himself?; Is it okay to root for Hannibal Lecter?; Did Catherine Martin keep Precious?; Would you watch a 1997 Buffalo Bill prequel with Ted Levine?; Should Jodie Foster have done the Hannibal sequel?; Was Jodie Foster good in this movie?
Is it okay to root for Lecter: he is one of the five worst people the hosts have rooted for, they cheer when he attacks Charles Napier's character, Clarice tells her FBI roommate he would not come after her because he would find it rude, and he seems to attack only people he has a grudge against.
Did Catherine Martin keep Precious: she carries the dog out at the end after the bone-and-bucket Hail Mary, and the host thinks she kept it.
Would they watch a Buffalo Bill prequel with Ted Levine in 1997: yes, though the investigation of serial killers interests one host more than their origins; should Foster have done the Hannibal sequel: no, she knew to leave well enough alone.
Was Foster good: one host thinks she is great; the other, since learning Michelle Pfeiffer had turned the role down, watches imagining Pfeiffer, would be more scared and more convinced, and thinks Pfeiffer the better actress, perhaps a year or two old for it.
The rebuttal is that Clarice's background as a rural West Virginia sheriff's daughter fits Foster, while Pfeiffer seems like a Tequila Sunrise, Fabulous Baker Boys person; the accent is still judged not good enough, with the claim that Hopkins knew it, and the advice is never to do an accent unless you are Daniel Day Lewis.
The Pfeiffer backer, calling her a favorite actress, adds that Castaway would be better with her in the Helen Hunt part and admits to simply not being a big Jodie Foster fan; another voice asked for an opinion praises her rookie vulnerability, Julia Roberts is rejected as too much of a megastar against Foster's diminutive presence, and there were few great actress options at the time.
Earlier, during the nits, what Lecter told Miggs over six hours to make him kill himself was parked for this segment.
Ted Levine is a yes, called the apex not just for him but for all actors.
Jonathan Demme is a no from one host, who would choose Stop Making Sense or Something Wild; the other asks how a five-for-five Oscar sweep is not the apex, and the first host admits to being a hipster about it but sticks with that choice.
Chris Isaac's apex (as transcribed) is instead the Wicked Game video, called a top-12 video of all time.
Jodie Foster is a yes: after an initial 'I think so', the reply agrees this was her apex; her performance in The Accused is rated higher, she is called good in Panic Room and Inside Man without those being apex work, and her most iconic role plus a second Best Actress Oscar settle it.
The hosts say they know who wins and there is no argument, but read the nominees anyway: Anthony healed (as transcribed) as Dr. Frederick Chilton, a classic 'that guy'; Charles Napier as Lieutenant Boyle with his great death scene; Chris Isaac (as transcribed) at his peak; and Ted Levine as Buffalo Bill.
Levine is called robbed of a supporting actor nomination; one host has rooted for him ever since and, seeing him as a detective in Heat in 1995, expected him to do something creepy, though the role probably pigeonholed him.
No one has won the award more convincingly: in the basketball metaphor he takes eight shots, all threes from 25 feet or more, makes them all, and is plus 38 in 12 minutes.
Hopkins mocked Foster's Southern accent in their first scene; James Gumm combines Ed Gein, Ted Bundy and Gary Hednick (as transcribed); Gene Siskel gave the film a negative review; Brooke Smith gained 25 pounds for Catherine Martin; Goodbye Horses replaced a Bob Seger song and Ted Levine insisted on the dance; Levine and Scott Glenn did extensive research; the story was inspired by Robert Keppel and Ted Bundy; William Goldman got Demme to cut a 12-minute Crawford-Clarice sequence
According to Jodie Foster, Hopkins improvised mocking her Southern accent during their first meeting, so her horrified reaction is genuine; the hosts love when good actors unsettle their scene partners, and the accent is called not great and one of several problems with her performance.
James Gumm ('Jame Gum' variously as transcribed) combines three real killers: Ed Gein, who skinned victims, Ted Bundy, who escaped and killed again, and Gary Hednick (as transcribed), who kept captives in a basement pit.
Gene Siskel gave the film a negative review, and one host calls Siskel the movie equivalent of the host's perpetual disagreements with Greenwald.
Brooke Smith, who played Catherine Martin, gained 25 pounds for her first major role, and the hosts wonder whether she deserved a supporting actress nomination.
The dance song Goodbye Horses by Q Lazarus was originally supposed to be a Bob Seger song, which one host is glad it was not; the hosts joke about how men their age would react if it came on in a bar.
Ted Levine insisted the dance scene be in the film, and the screenwriter did not know it would be until he saw it; it was improvised, Levine needed two drinks first, and he researched by visiting trans bars and talking to people.
Scott Glenn researched child murder cases and worked with the real-life model for Crawford, with tempestuous political arguments because Glenn opposed capital punishment; a host jokes that Glenn then murdered him.
The story was inspired by the relationship between University of Washington criminology professor and profiler Robert Keppel and Ted Bundy, which is how the Green River killer was caught.
The second host's research, from a Deadline oral history: after an LA screening, William Goldman told Demme to cut a filmed 12-minute sequence in which the attorney general chews out Crawford and Clarice, kicks her out of the academy and takes him off the case; Demme and the editor resisted, cut it anyway, and the film became a tight hour and 54 minutes.
Goldman is also credited with telling the Good Will Hunting writers to drop the second half where Will becomes a spy; the host found the Goldman story the most interesting, the Hackman material having been covered.
