TV spinoff with Annie Potts; Burbank and Burlingame filming; actress questioning the white-savior framing; real Emilio survived; Pfeiffer pregnant during filming
The host reads that the film spun off a TV show with Annie Potts as Louan Johnson, 17 episodes in 1996, canceled in 1997. — Bill Simmons
The host reads that the movie was filmed mostly on a Burbank lot, with exteriors at Burlingame High School. — Bill Simmons
The host reports that the actress who played Callie asked the real Lou Anne why it always had to be a white person lifting up Black students, and Johnson answered that she wrote the book, so she had to be white. — Bill Simmons
After asking for guesses, the host reports that the real Emilio did not die; he spent four years in the Marines and became a dad. — Bill Simmons
The host reports that Pfeiffer was pregnant during filming, which was shot out of sequence and hidden with long skirts, bulky sweaters and a large purse. — Bill Simmons
Emilio and Luann's chemistry; leather-jacket outfit; Wendy and Lisa score; Dylan-Dylan contest; Gangsta's Paradise video; Raul and Emilio performances; the 'what about us' moment
The opening credits list the score by Wendy and Lisa of the Revolution, which sounds a little Purple Rain-ish. — Bill Simmons
The Dylan-Dylan contest, though it never happened in real life, is good teaching. — Bill Simmons
The host reads that the Gangsta's Paradise video was directed by Antoine Fuqua, and quotes Coolio recalling that Pfeiffer seemed nervous around his crew but killed it in two takes. — Bill Simmons
Emilio's actor, Wade Dominguez, is praised alongside Raul; the host reads that Dominguez died in 1998 of respiratory failure, quotes the actor who played Raul recalling him as nice, vulnerable and insecure, and says he would have become a household name. — Bill Simmons
After Emilio's death she decides to leave, and Raul's 'what about us' reflects a real teaching experience: focusing on one kid until another student points it out. — Shea Serrano
The same dynamic occurs in youth sports when a coach centers everything on the best kid; one participant recalls a teammate named Will whom everything was designed around, and Bill is teased as the kind of coach who would do that. — Van Lathan
A former student named Emilio, once barred from his other classes and kept in one teacher's room all day, still keeps in touch and is having a baby girl. — Shea Serrano
The opening credits, which play the whole song in black and white, belong in the mix. — Bill Simmons
LouAnne's stereotypical first day nearly breaks her; she returns the next day in a leather jacket with her feet on the desk. — Bill Simmons
Emilio squashing the poetry reading ("since when did the board of education done anything for us") shows his force in the class, and Callie advises that to get the class you have to get Emilio. — Bill Simmons
Emilio sticking up for Ms. Johnson ("Read it again") is praised, including how she avoids visibly reacting when he finally participates.
A half scene: her visit to Raul's parents and the look on Raul's face. — Bill Simmons
Emilio at LouAnne's house, with the 'how are you going to save me from my life' payoff, is called the Oscar clip for Pfeiffer. — Bill Simmons
Learning of Emilio's death and telling the class is defended as emotional and her best scene, with strong acting in the principal's office.
Her telling the class she is not coming back is paired with the death scene as Pfeiffer's best two, likened to needing a Tom Brady-level quarterback. — Bill Simmons
The dinner scene with Raul is picked as most rewatchable: he borrowed money for the coat, risked his life, and knows she will come to his house if he misses school. — Shea Serrano
Second choice is Emilio standing up for Ms. Johnson, linked to a classroom story in which a student leader named Elias made a new student put his chair back, described as his Tim Duncan. — Shea Serrano
The restaurant scene is also picked because Raul grows up during it, going from not talking to the waiter to telling him "we're talking"; bringing who he is to where he is going is framed as a life lesson. — Shea Serrano
The restaurant scene is called everybody's favorite, including a daughter's. — Van Lathan
Another pick is the ending, with the kids fighting for her to stay; the shot of the older teacher walking away chain smoking could be cut. — Bill Simmons
Ebert is said to have been on a good streak on the show before giving Dangerous Minds one and a half stars. — Bill Simmons
The quoted review says the basic story was seen before in Stand and Deliver, Lean on Me, Teachers and Dead Poets Society, calls this version less than compelling, and says Pfeiffer, a good actress, does what she can with the material. — Bill Simmons
The review is received as a painful one: words hurt. — Bill Simmons
Rourke on that era's cocaine-fueled set would have been ugly; Danny is good when Smales tries to hit him with the golf club. — Sean Fennessey
Michelle Pfeiffer reportedly turned down Lacey because she did not want to be naked; she could have pulled it off, though she never played a character that frisky. — Bill Simmons
Pfeiffer and Rourke as Lacey and Danny would be a different movie, an Adrian Line erotic thriller; Rourke would compete with Ty, and O'Keefe landing Lacey should feel like a stretch. — Bill Simmons
Producer Peters is said to claim he had Bo Derek for Lacey before 10 and Ramis rejected it; Lacey is assumed to be about 25 and Danny about 17 or 18. — Bill Simmons
These movies shifted American comedy from a Jewish writing tradition toward Irish Catholic voices; Danny's eight-kid family is loosely based on the Murray family, and the young caddy landing Lacey set a template. — Sean Fennessey
Don Rickles was considered for Al; he is judged too mean and perhaps better as Judge Smales. — Bill Simmons
Pink Floyd was wanted for the music and declined, thankfully; Ramis's left-of-center interests like Zen Buddhism are noted, and Kenny Loggins came through instead. — Sean Fennessey
The hosts say Verhoeven went for Demi Moore, Amanda Donohoe was considered, and Douglas was talked into Sharon Stone, who made $500,000. — Bill Simmons
The Nick Curran role was said to be originally a lesbian cop written with Kathleen Turner in mind. — Bill Simmons
The hosts say Verhoeven was slated to direct Black Rain but left for Total Recall, and that he wanted Tom Berenger for RoboCop and for Nick and was turned down. — Bill Simmons
Per the hosts, Milos Forman was the first choice to direct and many leading men were allegedly considered, including Swayze, Costner, De Niro, Willis, Gibson and Harrison Ford, but the role is iconic Douglas. — Bill Simmons
Terry Garr is called not good, not really a good actress, in a part that is interesting in the right hands and which she is not interested in exploring; the defense offered is that the script gives her little material.
She could have played it sexier or more mom-ish, but the character is hard to describe: not really a mom, throwing the kids away for an hour, showing up frazzled, never asking about them or her husband until he gains weight and she throws darts, leaving the question of what is supposed to be likable about her.
A millennial brain trained that women should be ambitious says she should get on the plane after convincing a guy to spend $12 million, yet the film sets up a recession and a layoff and then treats it as no big deal; if she is ambitious, it is never clear in the first hour, so the character is undercooked in both script and performance, and she has no chemistry with Keaton, who has more with Angelian (as transcribed).
It is hard to believe she becomes successful at work since she seems like a clueless dipshit, going from two years of advertising experience and years at home to a high-powered executive, which is not how the workplace treats women after kids.
Michelle Pfeiffer is the replacement: it changes the whole dynamic and makes it interesting, but then the creep must be recast too, since Martin Mull is no threat to her, so Richard Gere; there are five more interesting versions of this film, and the Pfeiffer version ends with the mom leaving the family or having an affair while the husband watches soap operas.
Jack should have been much madder when Martin Mo (as transcribed) answers Carolyn's hotel phone in front of his friend and the kids, which is never resolved, and Carolyn finding Joan lying on her own bed is waved off too easily; Pfeiffer, queen of the 80s, 90s and 2000s, looks fantastic on the Maleficent 2 press tour.
There is a reason Terry Garr's career never exploded through the 80s, although she is good in Young Frankenstein and great in Tootsie; the frustration is that Tootsie Terry Garr is a character while this is only a sitcom mom, with Keaton given the fun things to do.
Meryl Streep is offered as one more idea, a fun part since she did weighty movies in the 80s, but she brings guilt and shame wherever she goes and would need a scene crying over missing Bobby's violin recital, which one host wanted and the other did not.
A parent who missed seven soccer games and a graduation during four weeks on the road at the NBA playoffs says the film never taps into that; the other host's mother, a successful lawyer who traveled, felt guilty, whereas this character does not care about her children at all, and Halloween, the best day for kids apart from birthdays, is the proof, though the $12 million pitch is conceded as a reason she has to be there.
Kurt Russell first, with the reminder that the question is the highest point of his career, not the favorite: one case is The Thing in 1982, after Escape from New York and with Silkwood, Swing Shift and Big Trouble in Little China coming; a no is cast because Escape from New York was only later a cult hit, raising whether apex is judged at the time or on reflection.
Reading about Tombstone makes it sound like Russell was able to finance the movie coming off Backdraft, a relatively big hit he starred in, likened to LeBron in the 2018 Finals; a controversial case is made for Tango and Cash, when after the well-liked Tequila Sunrise with Michelle Pfeiffer a hit with Stallone, an absolutely ridiculous movie only those two could pull off, left him looking like an A plus list star.
Tango and Cash was not a huge hit, costing $55 million and making $66 million, though $55 million in 1988 is like $160 million today, and it is not that good; the counter is that it opened up Backdraft and his ability to finance Tombstone; the actual answer may be that there was no apex at all, a range of rolling hills, which is what is cool about his career.
Russell was nominated for Best Supporting Actor for Silkwood, which is why his Apex Mountain is around The Thing in 1982 or 1983, when Escape from New York was becoming a cult movie. — Sean Fennessey
Whether Russell was ever Oscar-nominated is disputed, Miracle floated and rejected, until the Silkwood nomination is recalled; the host who forgot it concedes, a 180 the others tease.
Russell could have had a different career as a serious dramatic actor rather than leaning into the masculine hero; he and Harrison Ford are cut from the same cloth, smart throwbacks to Paul Newman charisma, but Ford got two franchises while Russell alternates three good films and three bad; he is also just a good-looking dude, at his most handsome here, a man who should be on a poster.
Val Kilmer: a no, with Top Gun imagined as his apex, since coming out of it people saw him neck and neck with the star, though another calls that the star's movie and goes Heat, where as De Niro's wingman in the biggest mid-90s movie he is the next wave; his pre-Batman run is traced through True Romance, Tombstone, The Real McCoy, Thunderheart and The Doors.
1987 right after Top Gun is floated, when Willow was hopefully going to be his Han Solo and did not work out; one host's personal apex for him is The Doors, where he was out of control, and a Doors rewatchable is wanted, though JFK would have to come first among the Oliver Stone movies.
Jason Priestley is a thousand-percent yes: 90210 was never bigger, he is in a movie with Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer and has a couple of heat-check scenes, the steepest mountain of all time, very high with a precipitous drop on either side; a caution that a later show (transcribed 'Natuna') was big for three and a half years does not change the view that this literally was his Apex Mountain and his first dabbling in movies.
Dana Delaney's apex has to be China Beach, which was probably already gone by this point, so she is not a yes; nobody else is proposed except George Cosmatos as ghost director, already covered, with the joke of a Ringer video secretly directed by someone else.
The late Bill Paxton: this is not a Mount Rushmore Paxton performance next to Aliens, Near Dark, One False Move, Weird Science, True Lies and Twister, though it may be his sweetest spot while figuring out how to be Bill Paxton; in Aliens Sigourney Weaver is the hero but Paxton and Biehn would in any other world have been the stars, and One False Move is incredible though arguably Billy Bob's movie too.
Twister was Hollywood's first concerted effort to make Paxton a major star, marketed with Helen Hunt and Philip Seymour Hoffman as people who were going to be stars rather than actual stars; the shift from needing a movie star to needing a tornado, meteor or alien invasion is traced to Speed, where Keanu was the guy and Sandra Bullock turned out to be one of the biggest stars of the next twenty years.
Paxton is one of the all-time great number two or three guys: here he sets picks and makes a couple of corner threes, telling Wyatt he is the one, spits a lot, works the scorer's-table handshakes at the start, and gets the 'hey' when Doc responds to Wyatt's description of his new wife with 'pure as the driven snow'.
The award goes to the actor or actress who makes you say 'oh, that guy' or 'oh, that girl' without remembering the name; Cruzito is out because his name is known, and MC Gaines' (as transcribed) Swamp Thing is nominated, one host not knowing who MC Gaines is, only that it was Swamp Thing.
Whether Swamp Thing was in the 'American Badass' video is wondered, since he looks like he would be; a host rewatched the video, having liked Kid Rock at the time, and was dismayed to find Confederate flags shown fast at first and then prominently featured.
Rachel Tickatin (as transcribed), whose name the hosts struggle to pronounce, is not a that-girl for one host because Total Recall, Man on Fire and this are enough of a body of work; she is called fantastic and a patron saint of the show for Man on Fire and this, deserving a better career, and her supposed Fisher King credit is corrected to 'Mercedes rule' (as transcribed).
The winner for one host is Rinaldi Santiago (as transcribed), texted earlier, who has really only been in two movies: the controversial Sally Can't Dance here and, more importantly, the little guy in Dangerous Minds who wins the class prize, feuds with Emilio, and has a weird one-on-one date with Michelle Pfeiffer, buying a jacket for it when the other two do not show up.
Another vote is Monica Potter, over the objection that people know her name from the Prefontaine movie, Parenthood and Patch Adams; the voter did not know her name either, having seen Patch Adams a couple of weeks ago and realized only then that she was the woman from Con Air.
Asked what he thinks, this host goes Potter, which is welcomed with a 'boom'. — Chris Ryan
The soundtrack has smart choices, like the Midnight Cowboy theme when Forrest wheels Lieutenant Dan around New York in 1970, with Sinise hitting a cab and saying 'I'm walking here' from a wheelchair. One host found it too on the nose and hokey as an adult, the other liked it as over the top. There are at least four and in fact six Doors songs; rock critics consider the Doors terrible, but Zemeckis is not a rock critic.
The gimmick of Forrest intersecting with fifty years of American history should not have worked but is enjoyed, moving from Vietnam to the disco and post-disco eras; whether the scenes with historical figures actually work is saved for what aged worst.
The soundtrack identified cool songs for young people but is the most obvious soundtrack of all time; it set up a bad run of Creedence and Fortunate Son in every movie and calcified classic rock as the soundtrack for boomer filmmakers through the nineties, so it goes in what aged worst too. One host just likes hearing Running on Empty and the Doors because he never listens to classic rock anymore, like a jukebox from a dead era.
Movies have ruined songs: Sloop John B, Sugar Pie Honey Bunch by the Four Tops in Disney sports movies like Remember the Titans, and Ain't No Mountain High Enough.
The redemption of Lieutenant Dan has aged really nicely, with his wife Susan, titanium legs and the Apple investment; Sinise's performance is awesome.
What did Lecter say to make Miggs kill himself?; Is it okay to root for Hannibal Lecter?; Did Catherine Martin keep Precious?; Would you watch a 1997 Buffalo Bill prequel with Ted Levine?; Should Jodie Foster have done the Hannibal sequel?; Was Jodie Foster good in this movie?
Is it okay to root for Lecter: he is one of the five worst people the hosts have rooted for, they cheer when he attacks Charles Napier's character, Clarice tells her FBI roommate he would not come after her because he would find it rude, and he seems to attack only people he has a grudge against.
Did Catherine Martin keep Precious: she carries the dog out at the end after the bone-and-bucket Hail Mary, and the host thinks she kept it.
Would they watch a Buffalo Bill prequel with Ted Levine in 1997: yes, though the investigation of serial killers interests one host more than their origins; should Foster have done the Hannibal sequel: no, she knew to leave well enough alone.
Was Foster good: one host thinks she is great; the other, since learning Michelle Pfeiffer had turned the role down, watches imagining Pfeiffer, would be more scared and more convinced, and thinks Pfeiffer the better actress, perhaps a year or two old for it.
The rebuttal is that Clarice's background as a rural West Virginia sheriff's daughter fits Foster, while Pfeiffer seems like a Tequila Sunrise, Fabulous Baker Boys person; the accent is still judged not good enough, with the claim that Hopkins knew it, and the advice is never to do an accent unless you are Daniel Day Lewis.
The Pfeiffer backer, calling her a favorite actress, adds that Castaway would be better with her in the Helen Hunt part and admits to simply not being a big Jodie Foster fan; another voice asked for an opinion praises her rookie vulnerability, Julia Roberts is rejected as too much of a megastar against Foster's diminutive presence, and there were few great actress options at the time.
Earlier, during the nits, what Lecter told Miggs over six hours to make him kill himself was parked for this segment.
