Without A Few Good Men there is a case for Hackman, but his performance carries Jessup fumes, and Nicholson did it better with a higher ceiling. — Bill Simmons
A counterargument says this is the Apex because The Fan, his next film, only got greenlit because he was Tony Scott. — Bill Simmons
With Frasier's Jack Russell also around in 1995, the preference is this Jack Russell, in a more consequential situation. — Chris Ryan
It could be the Apex for mutinies on subs.
For best submarine movie it is this or Hunt for Red October; Das Boot, older submarine films and K-19 come up, with K-19 called bad. — Sean Fennessey
This one performed better and feels more modern, but Hunt for Red October's outside plot and its Ramius versus Jack Ryan material are richer; it is called neck and neck. — Chris Ryan
Jason Robards cameos come up, with Enemy of the State mentioned and a preference voiced for this one. — Chris Ryan
The movie is really nobody's Apex: good people passing through, not peaking. — Bill Simmons
Tarantino's scenes are the Silver Surfer scene, the Star Trek Captain Kirk exchange, and the dialogue about the submarine films The Enemy Below and Run Silent, Run Deep. — Bill Simmons
The hosts cite a 1995 Premiere article saying Denzel confronted Tarantino on set about the N-word in his films and refused to take it private; per GQ, Denzel later apologized and called him a fine artist, and Denzel's daughter was a PA on Django. — Bill Simmons
Robert Towne got an urgent call from Simpson and Bruckheimer to rewrite the nature-of-war scene and dictated it over the phone while they recorded. — Bill Simmons
Dinner for Five with David Milch and Jon Favreau is recommended for Milch's story of a Simpson rewrite call; the 7 a.m. texts are called far milder than Simpson. — Chris Ryan
High Concept, a biography of Simpson, is recommended as salacious and fascinating. — Bill Simmons
The hosts say Robert Mueller as FBI director often quoted Hackman's 'we're here to preserve democracy, not to practice it'. — Bill Simmons
After a two-year process, including videotaping the lieutenant commander Denzel based his performance on, the U.S. Navy pulled out once it learned the script involved a mutiny. — Bill Simmons
The Navy had backed Top Gun; Tony Scott responded that if mutiny never happens, why is there mutiny training for naval officers. — Bill Simmons
The hosts say Simpson and Bruckheimer offered Val Kilmer a headlining role, which he declined and later regretted; the role was never specified. — Bill Simmons
Guesses for the Kilmer role are Viggo's part or Hunter, possibly turned down for not being big enough; he could have played every part except Hackman's. — Bill Simmons
Al Pacino was originally offered Captain Ramsey and would have dialed it up to 90 in his Vincent Hanna zone. — Bill Simmons
Warren Beatty was courted, another case of Beatty flirting with a part for a year before declining, as with the Burt Reynolds part in Boogie Nights, which is called the bigger miss; he would not have fit this movie. — Bill Simmons
Per a Don Simpson interview at Santa Anita, Pitt and Tom Cruise were considered for Denzel's part; Cruise was the first call for such parts for a decade, but it worked out perfectly. — Bill Simmons
Tony Scott makes a two-minute montage of the sub slowly descending riveting with Hans Zimmer's score; only Spielberg or McTiernan, who made Hunt for Red October, might have pulled it off. — Bill Simmons
Denzel's line 'in the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself' is one of about seven such Denzel lines. — Bill Simmons
Viggo lights a cigarette when he decides to refuse the launch, and many sailors smoke Marlboro Reds underwater with no smoking section. — Bill Simmons
George Dzundza's IMDb highlights include The Deer Hunter, No Way Out, Basic Instinct and Law & Order; a lowlight is co-leading the 1985 TV movie The Rape of Richard Beck with Richard Crenna. — Bill Simmons
The Richard Beck plot summary is read, a 35th-anniversary episode is joked about, and early-80s cocaine is blamed for bad decisions. — Bill Simmons
The last 60 minutes play basically in real time, with Weps doing the clock; it may have inspired Snake Eyes. — Bill Simmons
The EAMs are cinematically great, with messages three people must read aloud and confirm and run down the hallway; it is also disturbing that nuclear war hinged on them. — Chris Ryan
The opening title card names the three most powerful people in the world, including a nuclear submarine captain, and the closing card says captains lost launch authority on January 1, 1996; Bruckheimer pitches the card almost word for word in a featurette. — Sean Fennessey
Choosing is hard because the whole movie is rewatchable. — Bill Simmons
The first Hackman-Denzel meeting, where Hackman compares horses to high school girls, has the two feeling each other out; Denzel realizes he needs to keep his guard up with this guy. — Bill Simmons
The semi-confrontation after the kitchen fire and the missile drill is where the sparring really begins, with Ramsey's speech about the unified chain of command and not questioning each other in front of the crew.
Calling a missile drill during a fire is joked to be a Bill Simmons move, like a 7 a.m. text or an emergency pod after an earthquake; the reply is that sometimes you have to run the missile drill.
The Silver Surfer argument with Danny Nucci's sailor is called clearly a Tarantino pop-culture scene; a little dated and not fully understood, but enjoyable. — Bill Simmons
The blow-up where Denzel relieves Hackman is praised for its overlapping speeches; the hosts say Lieutenant Zimmer was named as an homage to Hans Zimmer.
Hackman is guessed at 5-11; camera tricks sometimes make him look taller than Denzel, which is joked to be a Top Gun habit of Tony Scott's. — Bill Simmons
Quick cuts show the crew paralyzed watching; on rewatch, Hunter starts questioning the captain in public as soon as the fire happens. — Bill Simmons
A 'coming up next' take argues Hunter was in the wrong: in the military chain of command you never question the lead dog with other people around, so he loses Hackman from that point. — Bill Simmons
A counter-question asks whether Ramsey deliberately draws out Hunter's defiance; Hunter keeps asking why, echoing the Clausewitz exchange.
Because Ramsey hired Hunter, an early scene showing Hunter was not his choice would explain the testing; the counterpoint is that time was short while Radchenko fueled his missiles. — Bill Simmons
The torpedo attack, with the sub hit, water coming in and depths called out, is a hacky but necessary submarine-movie beat; from around there the last hour plays nearly in real time. — Bill Simmons
The bilge-bay 'Seal the bay' scene has Rick Schroder really going for it, joked to be how he got NYPD Blue.
Viggo, very young and baby-faced, is great and pivotal, though his accent pops with little Dutch-like flourishes.
'You don't put on a condom unless you want to fuck' is called Chris's favorite line, prompting HR and WordPress jokes.
Other lines include the one about only two sides to a mutiny, and Denzel gets several yearbook-ready lines. — Bill Simmons
Matt Craven and Rocky Carroll are perfect as the officers running envelopes down hallways; Carroll was known as Joey from Rock on Fox, and both later spent years on NCIS.
Hackman taking the boat back includes Denzel's extra second-and-a-half stare at Viggo. — Bill Simmons
One pick is the final confrontation: Hackman hitting him, the 'God help you if you're wrong' exchange, the three-minute wait for the radio, and the final message reveal, called seven unassailable minutes. — Bill Simmons
Another pick is the first mutiny, for the overlapping dialogue while the missiles are fueled; the stallions scene is acknowledged as the famous one.
A further voice agrees the first mutiny is the favorite part and the turning point, starting when Ramsey yells 'Mr. Hunter, I've made a decision... shut the fuck up!' — Sean Fennessey
The line is joked about for Zoom meetings; NBA owners most likely to yell it include Tillman Fertitta and Mickey Arison. — Sean Fennessey
Denzel going from the Rock in Fast 7 to Viola Davis in Fences is joked about; it is called a great movie what-if that the speaker only learned of the what-if that week. — Bill Simmons
Called a favorite casting what-if ever: one host says Denzel Washington turned down Mr. Nobody before Kurt Russell, per "the internet," even with a promised bigger Fast 8 part; the reply is stunned. — Bill Simmons
The hosts guess Denzel was in Oscar mode before Fences and would only do an action movie as its star, citing The Equalizer. — Bill Simmons
Taylor Lautner and "Hallie Berry" (as transcribed) are said to have also been considered; Mr. Nobody had to be older, though Lautner's old-guy face is joked about. — Shea Serrano
Kurt Russell is a great pick as a throwback to late-80s and early-90s action, with an internet theory that he is channeling his 1988 Tequila Sunrise character. — Bill Simmons
Statham is said to have been offered the Owen Shaw role in Fast Six but to have been making Parker and "Wildcard" (as transcribed); he is agreed to be better as the big brother. — Bill Simmons
A case is made for the train, 777, while conceding it is probably Tony: it becomes a King Kong-like monster, keeps beating all comers, and has its own theme.
As the train keeps winning, the officials sound silly; Denzel respects it, and viewers come to want it stopped rather than derailed or destroyed.
Judd's derailed engine shows what happens if the train blows up.
What happens with Denzel's daughters; best Pennsylvania action movie; whether Rosario Dawson has had her apex role; what if the train restarted after the ending
What is going on with Denzel's daughters? They are working through college, delightfully happy and unexplored, worthy of a spin-off.
Best Pennsylvania action movie: this one over Striking Distance, a Bruce Willis Pittsburgh Coast Guard movie that might work better as a 10-episode Netflix show. — Bill Simmons
Asked whether anyone has fully unlocked Rosario Dawson, the answer is no: she has charm and audience connection but needs a movie built around her. — Quentin Tarantino
She is likened to NBA players who never found the right situation; she was great in Clerks II, and plays the Ed Harris Apollo 13 part here.
Death Proof is raised; she is one of the three heroes of its second half rather than the lead.
Ideas include a Kramer vs. Kramer or Silkwood-type role, versus a genre movie that makes her a movie star, such as a speculative book about a plot to poison Roosevelt that was given to her.
Late addition: what if the movie ended with the train starting again after the press conference? — Bill Simmons
Why not try having a car pace the train for a jump before hanging a man from a helicopter; deemed a decent nitpick, though there may have been no road access. — Bill Simmons
Pittsburgh local news has impossibly expert runaway-train coverage and graphics; others counter that it is local news on the biggest story ever there.
Would Hooters really switch from sports to the train; the counter is that the daughters get the manager to put it on. — Bill Simmons
An internet theory says another locomotive could have coupled in front and passed a driver across, ending the movie; it is rejected as no fun and hard because they never connect.
Everyone is supposedly evacuating a traveling Chernobyl, yet the town gathers at ground zero and Darcy brings her son. — Chris Ryan
Molten phenol riding with grain is questioned, and countered that railroads just move freight. — Chris Ryan
The throttle slipping out on its own is a bold-faced cheat like Final Destination; others read it as human error, and a scene seems to set up an explanation that never comes.
The storage tanks at the curve are ridiculous but accepted because they are fun, as Jaws is more fun with a full beach.
Shooting at the train's fuel tank seemed a bad plan with a one-in-100 chance of working.
The news helicopter follows Denzel and Pine before anyone knows what they are doing, reusing footage meant for elsewhere without pulling it off.
