Ray Allen and Spike Lee are reported to have discussed a de facto sequel, but one participant says it will not happen. — Bill Simmons
The observed Rosario Dawson is reported as eighteen and sexually inexperienced during production, with a later statement that she first had sex at twenty. — Bill Simmons
The opening song is identified as John Henry. — Bill Simmons
John Henry is described as a Black folk hero and steel driver who beat a machine but died. — Van Lathan
The panel interprets that labor story as a deliberate man-versus-machine frame for the opening.
Is the movie better with Matt Damon in the Barry Pepper part? Reasons: whether he would be better, whether it is a fun new role for him, and whether a Rounders-reunion cast with Norton, Hoffman and Spike Lee raises its Oscar ceiling; this is asked while liking Pepper. — Bill Simmons
A reply: Damon changes the stakes and would require fleshing the character out more; Pepper became a better actor as the decade went on. — Wesley Morris
Another view: it is probably a longer movie but taken more seriously as an awards movie because of the names. — Bill Simmons
Pepper's career is reviewed, with his run ending after this period; playing a role in Battlefield Earth alongside Travolta is called a red flag, but he is called a good actor and great in this movie. — Bill Simmons
What is the Hoffman character's Monday like? Awkward, probably handing in his resignation. — Bill Simmons
Will Rosario Dawson's character be waiting when Monty gets out in seven years? The answer is no, she is long gone, and the dad is probably dead. — Bill Simmons
What is her job? It is unclear; maybe a waitress, maybe a student, since she was 17 when they met, the same age as the Anna Pacquin character. — Wesley Morris
The hosts report that Britney Murphy was originally lined up to play Mary, taken to be the Anna Pacoan role, and it fell through; she might have fit Rosario Dawson's role instead. — Bill Simmons
The hosts report that Toby McGuire bought the rights to the novel and was supposed to star, then chose Spider-Man and stayed on as a producer. — Bill Simmons
The movie is judged not as good with McGuire as Monty, though he is called a dark horse who can surprise. — Wesley Morris
Favorite McGuire performances named include Brothers with Jake Gyllenhaal, Spider-Man 2 for its reaction shots in action scenes, and the first 40 minutes of Spider-Man 3; Ice Storm is called his best movie. — Wesley Morris
The Ice Storm is described by a host as one of the great movies about whiteness made by a non-white filmmaker, with James Shamish writing and Engley directing; a future Ice Storm episode is promised. — Wesley Morris
Clay Davis casting; Spike Lee and Rosario Dawson tandem; Norton and Hoffman career timing; the score; three-dimensional cops and Feds; Cool Hand Luke poster; the title
Clay Davis as the agent is the first item. — Bill Simmons
The Spike Lee and Rosario Dawson tandem holds up; she is felt to be at her best in his movies, including He Got Game, maybe across three films together. — Bill Simmons
The point in their careers at which the film catches Norton and Hoffman has aged well, and the music is included. — Bill Simmons
Spike Lee's constant distrust of cops, Feds and the D.A. is called understandable, and they are always three-dimensional characters rather than simple bad guys; Inside Man's police hierarchy is a favorite example. — Bill Simmons
The Cool Hand Luke poster in Norton's apartment is great, big and unusually sized; a search for it came up empty. — Bill Simmons
The title 25th Hour, taken from the book, is a strong idea for a title. — Bill Simmons
The opening credits are great and a little emotional, and the opening scene of deciding whether to save the wounded dog sets up the question of whether somebody can be saved. — Bill Simmons
An internet theory that the wounded dog resembles America after 9/11 is mentioned but called a little too English-literature to fully buy. — Bill Simmons
The Feds busting Monty for the drugs in his couch is highly rewatchable because Isaiah Whitlock, Jr. is essentially Clay Davis from The Wire as a drug agent. — Bill Simmons
The big bathroom speech insults every part of New York before turning on Monty himself.
The hosts report that Disney wanted to cut the bathroom scene and that Spike and Benioff refused, with Spike calling it one of the reasons he wanted to make the movie. — Bill Simmons
Pepper and Hoffman looking over Ground Zero and arguing about Monty is a great scene with two great actors; the Ground Zero imagery is described as jarring and alarming, with touches like "fuck the Times, I read the Post." — Bill Simmons
Other favorites: the bar scene with Rosario Dawson, Pepper and Hoffman where the bartender invites them to her birthday party; Pepper trying to figure out whether Dawson flipped; Monty deciding not to kill his associate and handing him to the Russians. — Bill Simmons
Frank beating up Monty is called some of the best directing of Spike Lee's career: wide shots, silence except park sounds, and alternating slow motion and live action; it is intense rather than fun. — Bill Simmons
The dream sequence narrated by Brian Cox of the life Monty could have had is praised; a counterview would ask to cut that fantasy montage and end on Monty's face in the car, keeping that last shot. — Bill Simmons
Producer Craig's favorite scene in the movie is said to be the montage; the old-age makeup on Rosario Dawson and Edward Norton is praised, and the imagined kids resemble her more than him. — Wesley Morris
Asked for a most rewatchable scene, the answer is the nightclub sequence, counted at 24 minutes from entering the club to leaving, with the sound design best heard on good headphones. — Wesley Morris
The reply agrees: the sound was incredible on better speakers, and from the Patrice O'Neill bouncer moment through leaving the bar is the best part of the movie. — Bill Simmons
Comparisons are drawn to busy Michael Man scenes in Collateral and Miami Vice, and Spike is called a good chaos director, as in Inside Man, though not when chaos is the point, as in Old Boy. — Bill Simmons
The club is read as a purgatory with three levels (heaven, hell, purgatory); the film withholds the pleasure a morally unrestrained, maybe pre-9/11 movie would indulge, including the Hoffman-Pacquin encounter and the women dancing. — Wesley Morris
While the women dance above, Norton and Pepper discuss whether his girlfriend ratted him out, with his associate pushing that suspicion; the trust-your-partner plot is always welcome. — Wesley Morris
"It's a train, Dewey, not a chipmunk"; "Mr. Galvin, this is Will Colson, your conductor, letting you know we're going to run this bitch down"; "Was I worried? Nah, not really. It's all about precision"
Rosario Dawson's lines "It got away from you" and "It's a train, Dewey, not a chipmunk" are shouted out. — Chris Ryan
Will Colson's "we're going to run this bitch down" call to Galvin is liked. — Chris Ryan
Ned is said to have the line of the movie (garbled in the transcript), and his whole hero-ceremony interview, ending "It's all about precision", is praised.
What happens with Denzel's daughters; best Pennsylvania action movie; whether Rosario Dawson has had her apex role; what if the train restarted after the ending
What is going on with Denzel's daughters? They are working through college, delightfully happy and unexplored, worthy of a spin-off.
Best Pennsylvania action movie: this one over Striking Distance, a Bruce Willis Pittsburgh Coast Guard movie that might work better as a 10-episode Netflix show. — Bill Simmons
Asked whether anyone has fully unlocked Rosario Dawson, the answer is no: she has charm and audience connection but needs a movie built around her. — Quentin Tarantino
She is likened to NBA players who never found the right situation; she was great in Clerks II, and plays the Ed Harris Apollo 13 part here.
Death Proof is raised; she is one of the three heroes of its second half rather than the lead.
Ideas include a Kramer vs. Kramer or Silkwood-type role, versus a genre movie that makes her a movie star, such as a speculative book about a plot to poison Roosevelt that was given to her.
Late addition: what if the movie ended with the train starting again after the press conference? — Bill Simmons
Bald know-it-all Denzel; Ethan Suplee and T.J. Miller as the screwups; railroad executives on the golf course; the wage-and-retirement conflict; authentic dialogue between the leads; nuanced family characterizations; Denzel's one rule; the mission-control structure; Tony Scott's mastery
Bald Denzel as a slightly condescending know-it-all works because only Denzel can pull it off. — Bill Simmons
Dewey and T.J. Miller's character are great as the screwups; Miller is unrecognizable without his long hair and mustache. — Bill Simmons
The evil executives seen briefly on a golf course are a highlight. — Bill Simmons
The labor politics have aged best: the company wants to retire expensive veterans and replace them with cheaply paid rookies, which hits harder now; a Saturday Night Live trailer parody mocked the expected old-versus-young cliche.
The reveal that Frank has already been pushed out is handled without a corny countdown scene, letting the wage dynamic emerge mid-movie.
Character-bonding scenes usually fail in action movies, but every line between the leads feels authentic, including "Ask your wife what she thinks".
Compared with the dialogue-driven Taking of Pelham 1 2 3, none of whose versions has a working ending, the dialogue here is functional and good, and the train jargon sells it.
Characterizations are nuanced: Denzel's daughters just work at Hooters through college rather than resenting him, and Pine's marriage is complicated. — Chris Ryan
Denzel's one rule speech to his conductor is cited as not the worst rule in the world. — Chris Ryan
It is a mission-control movie in the vein of Apollo 13, Armageddon, The Hunt for Red October and War Games, with Rosario Dawson's scenes a favorite; the Tony Scott version is looser, letting Kevin Corrigan's outsider interject. — Chris Ryan
Tony Scott's mastery, an answer the speaker also gave for Dunkirk, gets better on every viewing; it being his last movie adds weight.
Great last movies are rare; examples include Phil Carlson's Framed with Joe Don Baker and a director's final Japanese-set film that he narrates himself.
Christopher Nolan reportedly screened Unstoppable while planning Dunkirk, and Tony Scott appears to have drawn on Apocalypse Now's rule that helicopters must fly through every shot to keep the energy alive.
The same idea was applied to the ranch scenes in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, keeping dogs crossing in the background of every shot; the scene was not the hardest to shoot.
Dewey losing the train is a first pick: he cannot catch it, falls, and is the kind of idiot a real person would be rather than a movie idiot. — Bill Simmons
Tony Scott gives fringe characters room, as with the surveillance guys in Enemy of the State, who almost steal that movie. — Bill Simmons
The train nearly hitting the horses is unreal; the audience knows the children are safe but the horse might not be, and the shot from inside the horse trailer amazes.
Made around 1990 the horse would have gone down; you do not kill a dog unless you are John Wick.
Planting a car in front of the train goes badly and it derails and explodes, the first sign it could take out a town. — Bill Simmons
Galvin's plan is never explained: the film cross-cuts between his boardroom and Rosario Dawson's people, and the audience watches the plan take shape without being told.
Information flows well: viewers see the broadcasts and everyone involved, while the men on the train keep being caught unaware.
Will falling while trying to couple the cars feels real with no CGI, making a participant nervous for Chris Pine; the foot injury looks like it hurts. — Bill Simmons
Denzel's line that Will is "different" when asked if he is okay is singled out as brutal.
The train heading into the big curve beside storage tanks is joked about as the worst city planning; a defense is promised for Picking Nits.
The curve sequence works because of the cross-cutting to everyone watching on TV: the engineers, Rosario Dawson's team, Denzel's daughters at Hooters, Pine's wife and son, and the bars, which makes it emotional.
Tilting trains are believable because nobody knows enough about trains, unlike buses taking a ramp at 55.
Will jumping out and back onto the train is chosen as the most rewatchable scene; it leads to Denzel standing on top of the train with his arms up. — Bill Simmons
Fast and Furious has desensitized viewers to jumping between moving vehicles; Dewey's run shows how hard it really is. — Bill Simmons
Runaway Train with Eric Roberts and Voight influenced Tony Scott; it is a cynical convict movie where the train is not a character, but Denzel atop the train echoes Voight's ending.
The helicopter attempt to stop the train with a man hanging out is picked; one shot holds two trains, three choppers and a fleet of emergency vehicles. — Chris Ryan
Favorite shot is the grain explosion while Pine works on the coupling, with the helicopter flying parallel through the cornstorm, likened to Days of Heaven and Apocalypse Now; the most rewatchable scene is Ned arriving at the end in his red truck and getting Chris Pine to the front. — Quentin Tarantino
