The Stephen A. Smith Hottest Take Award · 2:01:50
Zodiac as the greatest American crime film
A modern Zodiac case would be flattened into partisan internet discourse.
Sean Fennessey: Zodiac is proposed as the greatest American crime film.
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1:12:36
1:26:31
1:35:45
1:45:55
1:53:16
1:56:40
2:01:50
2:09:32
2:11:24
2:17:56
2:26:44
2:34:20
2:34:55
2:39:50
2:40:42
2:43:23
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Who won the movie
David Fincher
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Roger Ebert
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Just one Oscar
David Fincher
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Dion Waiters Award
Clea DuVall
The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson · 2:40:42
“It’s not finished until you type it up”
Bill Simmons: “It’s not finished until you type it up” is offered as a life lesson and compared with the idea that movies are abandoned rather than finished.
Cast
Selected cast credits · Film reference
Jake Gyllenhaal
Robert Graysmith
Mark Ruffalo
Inspector Dave Toschi
Robert Downey Jr.
Paul Avery
Anthony Edwards
Inspector Bill Armstrong
Brian Cox
Melvin Belli
Charles Fleischer
Bob Vaughn
Zach Grenier
Mel Nicolai
Philip Baker Hall
Sherwood Morrill
Elias Koteas
Sergeant Jack Mulanax
James LeGros
Detective George Bawart
Donal Logue
Captain Ken Narlow
John Carroll Lynch
Arthur Leigh Allen
Dermot Mulroney
Captain Marty Lee
Chloë Sevigny
Melanie Graysmith
John Terry
Charles Thieriot
June Diane Raphael
Carol Toschi
Ciara Moriarty
Darlene Ferrin
Adam Goldberg
Duffy Jennings
Tom Verica
Jim Dunbar
Lee Norris
Mike Mageau
Jimmi Simpson
Older Mike Mageau
Joel Bissonnette
Inspector Kracke
John Getz
Templeton Peck
John Mahon
Captain Gillette
Matt Winston
John Allen
Jules Bruff
Catherine Allen
John Ennis
Terry Pascoe
Patrick Scott Lewis
Bryan Hartnell
Pell James
Cecelia Shepard
Clea DuVall
Linda del Buono
Zachary Sauers
Aaron Graysmith
Micah Sauers
David Graysmith
Candy Clark
Carol Fisher
Paul Schulze
Sandy Panzarella
John Hemphill
Donald Cheney
Ed Setrakian
Al Hyman
The titular serial killer is portrayed by different actors in different scenes: Richmond Arquette
Zodiac 1 / Zodiac 2
Bob Stephenson
Zodiac 3
John Lacy
Zodiac 4
Everything from the episode
In the order the hosts got to it. Open a row for the discussion.
1:12:36
Most Rewatchable Scene
The Arthur Leigh Allen interrogation
The Arthur Leigh Allen interrogation
In the discussion (15)
Approx. transcript time · 01:12:36Read transcript
- The Lovers Lane opening murder and its flashlight-on-gun image are nominated. — Bill Simmons
- The Vallejo fireworks opening is nominated. — Bill Simmons
- Graysmith reading the decoded letter as Paul Avery watches is nominated. — Bill Simmons
- The Lake Berryessa bluff murder is called one of the most unsettling murder scenes.
- Melvin Belli’s live television appearance is nominated.
- The Ione Skye car sequence is nominated. — Bill Simmons
- Downey and Gyllenhaal’s newsroom and bar exchanges are nominated.
- The Arthur Leigh Allen interrogation is the final favorite. — Bill Simmons
- The search of Allen’s trailer is nominated. — Bill Simmons
- The basement sequence is nominated, though one host says repeat viewings reduce its impact.
- Graysmith’s late-night visit to Toschi is nominated. — Bill Simmons
- The Ace Hardware stare-down is nominated.
- Toschi and Armstrong processing the taxi-cab murder scene is nominated. — Chris Ryan
- Graysmith and Toschi’s first meeting is nominated. — Sean Fennessey
- The final Door-to-Door breakfast is called a favorite except for the interrogation. — Sean Fennessey
1:26:31
The most 2007 thing
Folgers coffee; difficulty coordinating investigations across cities
Folgers coffee; difficulty coordinating investigations across cities
In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:26:31Read transcript
- Folgers coffee is the primary 1970s marker. — Bill Simmons
- Coordinating investigations between cities is cited as another 1970s marker. — Sean Fennessey
- The film is discussed as Gen X art reckoning with a chaotic late-1960s and 1970s childhood landscape. — Sean Fennessey
1:35:45
What’s Aged the Best?
True-crime culture, period San Francisco, Downey, the protagonist shift, Graysmith’s internet-like obsession, Fincher...
True-crime culture, period San Francisco, Downey, the protagonist shift, Graysmith’s internet-like obsession, Fincher’s catalog, and several craft details
In the discussion (14)
Approx. transcript time · 01:35:45Read transcript
- Chloë Sevigny’s humor and deliberately ordinary styling are praised.
- The rise of true-crime culture gives the film more resonance. — Bill Simmons
- Late-1960s and early-1970s San Francisco is nominated as an enduring setting. — Bill Simmons
- Fincher’s San Francisco feels haunted and geographically unmistakable.
- Downey’s mutterings and banter with Gyllenhaal are praised. — Chris Ryan
- The tonal and procedural shift from Toschi to the isolated Graysmith is praised. — Chris Ryan
- The unsolvability of mundane tragedy is treated as a lasting subject. — Sean Fennessey
- Graysmith’s external obsession anticipates internet behavior. — Sean Fennessey
- Robert Downey Jr.’s comeback context is nominated. — Bill Simmons
- Zodiac’s place in Fincher’s catalog is nominated. — Bill Simmons
- Paul Avery’s waterside home is praised.
- The Chronicle newsroom recreation is praised for capturing an empty morning newspaper office. — Bill Simmons
- The soundtrack’s gradual move into yacht rock is praised. — Bill Simmons
- Downey’s on-screen smoking is praised.
1:45:55
The Great Shot Gordo Award for Most Cinematic Shot
Lake Berryessa, the opening fireworks, a phone booth, the Golden Gate Bridge, and rebuilt San Francisco compete for t...
Lake Berryessa, the opening fireworks, a phone booth, the Golden Gate Bridge, and rebuilt San Francisco compete for the most cinematic shot.
In the discussion (7)
Approx. transcript time · 01:45:55Read transcript
- The opening city-and-fireworks image is nominated. — Chris Ryan
- Graysmith and Melanie in the rain-lit phone booth are nominated. — Chris Ryan
- The Zodiac cresting the hill at Lake Berryessa is nominated. — Sean Fennessey
- The camera holding on Hartnell during the stabbing is nominated. — Sean Fennessey
- The cut to the woman’s torso during the stabbing is nominated. — Sean Fennessey
- An aerial Golden Gate Bridge shot is nominated.
- The digital reconstruction of the Embarcadero is nominated.
1:53:16
The Butch’s Girlfriend Award for the Weakest Link in the Film
Avery’s Riverside detour, the missing first murder, and reliance on Donald Cheney’s claims are the main weak-link con...
Avery’s Riverside detour, the missing first murder, and reliance on Donald Cheney’s claims are the main weak-link concerns.
In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 01:53:16Read transcript
- Avery’s trip to Riverside is considered confusing. — Chris Ryan
- The film could explain the first Zodiac double murder more clearly. — Bill Simmons
- The Donald Cheney material is entertaining but its credibility is questioned. — Sean Fennessey
- The case against Arthur Leigh Allen rests heavily on disputed circumstantial claims. — Sean Fennessey
1:56:40
What’s Aged the Worst?
The abrupt four-year title card, too little Downey–Gyllenhaal time, their fictionalized friendship, Anthony Edwards’s...
The abrupt four-year title card, too little Downey–Gyllenhaal time, their fictionalized friendship, Anthony Edwards’s wig, and the film’s persuasive Arthur Leigh Allen framing
In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 01:56:40Read transcript
- Replacing a planned two-minute musical time-passage montage with the abrupt “four years later” card is criticized. — Bill Simmons
- The film is judged about five minutes short on Downey and Gyllenhaal together. — Bill Simmons
- Their entertaining friendship is acknowledged as a movie invention rather than a real friendship. — Chris Ryan
- Anthony Edwards wearing a wig is criticized. — Bill Simmons
- The movie left one host certain Arthur Leigh Allen was the killer for years, a confidence later evidence unsettled. — Sean Fennessey
2:01:50
The Stephen A. Smith Hottest Take Award
Zodiac as the greatest American crime film; Zodiac as the greatest serial-killer brand
Zodiac as the greatest American crime film; Zodiac as the greatest serial-killer brand
In the discussion (7)
Approx. transcript time · 02:01:50Read transcript
- A modern Zodiac case would be flattened into partisan internet discourse.
- Zodiac is proposed as the greatest American crime film. — Sean Fennessey
- Its attention to the actual work of solving crime distinguishes it. — Sean Fennessey
- The Zodiac is proposed as the greatest serial killer by legacy and elusiveness. — Bill Simmons
- The self-created name and communications are cited as a uniquely strong gimmick. — Bill Simmons
- Modern DNA and cameras are said to make serial killing harder. — Bill Simmons
- Taking credit for unrelated crimes may have distorted the investigation. — Sean Fennessey
2:09:32
The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award
No single winner: John Terry, Charles Fleischer, and other veteran supporting actors
No single winner: John Terry, Charles Fleischer, and other veteran supporting actors
In the discussion (6)
Approx. transcript time · 02:09:32Read transcript
- John Getz is nominated but considered too recognizable.
- John Terry is nominated. — Sean Fennessey
- Charles Fleischer is nominated. — Bill Simmons
- The actor who played Father Intintola on The Sopranos is nominated. — Bill Simmons
- The actor associated with Kicking and Screaming and Beverly Hills, 90210 is nominated. — Bill Simmons
- The panel notes that many classic That Guys have graduated from eligibility. — Bill Simmons
2:11:24
The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance
Clea DuVall
In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 02:11:24Read transcript
- John Carroll Lynch is nominated.
- Charles Fleischer is nominated for one basement scene. — Chris Ryan
- Clea DuVall is selected for commanding her single interview scene. — Chris Ryan
- Brian Cox is nominated for two highly seasoned scenes.
- Melvin Belli’s housekeeper receives a low-key nomination.
2:17:56
Apex Mountain
David Fincher (creative apex disputed); Mark Ruffalo as a movie detective; John Carroll Lynch; Zodiac within Fincher’...
David Fincher (creative apex disputed); Mark Ruffalo as a movie detective; John Carroll Lynch; Zodiac within Fincher’s filmography
In the discussion (10)
Approx. transcript time · 02:17:56Read transcript
- Fincher’s apex is disputed among Zodiac, The Social Network, Fight Club, and Gone Girl, with a distinct case for Zodiac as his creative apex.
- Mark Ruffalo is judged at an apex specifically as a movie detective, with Zodiac favored over Collateral. — Bill Simmons
- Gyllenhaal’s apex is debated against Nightcrawler and his End of Watch/Prisoners period.
- San Francisco movies are measured against 48 Hrs., Bullitt, and Dirty Harry. — Bill Simmons
- Chloë Sevigny is rejected in favor of The Last Days of Disco. — Bill Simmons
- Fincher villains are compared, with John Doe favored over Arthur Leigh Allen and Mark Zuckerberg. — Bill Simmons
- John Carroll Lynch movies are compared, and Zodiac is chosen over Fargo. — Bill Simmons
- Donovan needle drops are compared across Zodiac, To Die For, and Goodfellas.
- Wooden dildos receive a joking apex discussion.
- Zodiac is selected as Fincher’s best or favorite movie, with Seven and other later films discussed. — Sean Fennessey
2:26:44
Cruise or Hanks?
Split choice: Tom Hanks and Tom Cruise
Split choice: Tom Hanks and Tom Cruise
In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 02:26:44Read transcript
- The category is introduced as “Cruise or Hanks.”
- One audible choice favors Hanks.
- Another audible choice favors Cruise, followed by agreement that Cruise is fun in the movie.
- Cruise and Hanks are each tested as Graysmith and Toschi, with concern that either recasting loses Ruffalo. — Bill Simmons
- The panel explicitly says it does not really have to choose.
2:34:20
Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake
Mindhunter as the prestige-TV version
Mindhunter as the prestige-TV version
In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 02:34:20Read transcript
- The category is introduced with sequel, prequel, prestige TV, and all-Black-cast options. — Bill Simmons
- Mindhunter is given as the prestige-TV realization. — Bill Simmons
2:34:55
Just One Oscar
David Fincher
In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 02:34:55Read transcript
- The category is run as a regular named question. — Bill Simmons
- Fincher is selected over the actors and craftspeople. — Bill Simmons
2:39:50
What Piece of Memorabilia Would You Want From This Movie?
The I Am Not Paul Avery button
The I Am Not Paul Avery button
In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 02:39:50Read transcript
- The I Am Not Paul Avery button is proposed. — Bill Simmons
- Avery’s houseboat is proposed. — Bill Simmons
- The Zodiac letters are proposed. — Bill Simmons
- Graysmith’s scrapbook is proposed. — Bill Simmons
- The wooden dildo is raised and rejected. — Bill Simmons
2:40:42
The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson
“It’s not finished until you type it up”; keep investigating even at the cost of family and sanity if Fincher may ada...
“It’s not finished until you type it up”; keep investigating even at the cost of family and sanity if Fincher may adapt it (sarcastic)
In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 02:40:42Read transcript
- “It’s not finished until you type it up” is offered as a life lesson and compared with the idea that movies are abandoned rather than finished. — Bill Simmons
- A sarcastic second lesson says never stop a murder investigation, even if it costs family and sanity, because it might lead to a David Fincher movie. — Bill Simmons
2:43:23
Who Won the Movie?
David Fincher
In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 02:43:23Read transcript
- Three audible responses affirm David Fincher as the winner.
- The Zodiac killer is raised afterward as an alternative because he escaped and the film burnishes his myth.
Podcast choices
- Speaker not identified
- David Fincher
- Speaker not identified
- David Fincher
- Speaker not identified
- David Fincher
Mentions across The Rewatchables
Double Feature
The Silence of the Lambs
The Rewatchables · aired October 15, 2024
Manhunter (two preferences); Zodiac (another pick)
Approx. transcript time · 02:02:23Read transcript
Source 1