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The Rewatchables ·

The Natural

year 1984decade 80sdirector Barry Levinsongenre Sportsgenre Drama
host Bill Simmonshost Mallory Rubin
All 15 categories

Most Rewatchable Scene · 31:04

The walk-off home run

Hobbs versus the Whammer is fantastic; Joe Don Baker is the best Hollywood Babe Ruth, with the size, nose, gut and swagger, compared favorably to John Goodman; the scene dates to 1923, Ruth's 14-WAR MVP season, and both hosts prefer the Whammer as a cover rather than naming Babe Ruth, partly because a lefty would have been needed.

The foul tip taking out Duval (as transcribed), or rather the poor old catcher, with nobody wearing masks is noted, and Duval backing up twenty paces, to the Whammer's protest about how he will call it from there, is a classic moment.

The film

The Natural (1984)

Directed by Barry Levinson · Sports

138 minutes

IMDb
Cast

Selected cast credits · Film reference

Robert Redford Roy Hobbs
Robert Redford Roy Hobbs Paul Sullivan Jr. as Young Roy Hobbs
Robert Duvall Max Mercy
Glenn Close Iris Gaines
Kim Basinger Memo Paris
Wilford Brimley Populus "Pop" Fisher
Barbara Hershey Harriet Bird
Robert Prosky The Judge
Richard Farnsworth "Red" Blow
Joe Don Baker "The Whammer"
Michael Madsen Bartholomew "Bump" Bailey
John Finnegan Sam Simpson
Jon Van Ness John Olsen

Everything from the episode

In the order the hosts got to it. Open a row for the discussion.

18:07

Roger Ebert's review
In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 00:18:07Read transcript
  • Ebert gave the film two stars and asked why they did not just make a baseball picture and why The Natural had to be turned into idolatry; the hosts stumble over pronouncing the word.
  • The critique is called a bad one: idolatry is part of baseball fandom, especially for a kid picking a favorite player, since hitting a baseball is the hardest thing in sports and the game is a myth-making machine; Philip Roth's Great American Novel and Bull Durham's existential dread are cited, and the corniness is part of the fun.
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1:04:19

Casting What-Ifs

None found

None found

Approx. transcript time · 01:04:19Read transcript
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1:05:10

Half-Assed Internet Research

Darren McGavin went uncredited over billing; Randy Newman's theme; the clock homer was inspired by Bama Roel of the B...

Darren McGavin went uncredited over billing; Randy Newman's theme; the clock homer was inspired by Bama Roel of the Braves; a six-minute-longer director's cut; the 'little boy in you' quote was Ray Campanella's; filmed at Buffalo's War Memorial Stadium; the Parkside Candy Store is real; 3,000 extras at $3.35 an hour plus cardboard cutouts; no one has hit the cover off a ball; the Savoy Special bat is at Cooperstown; Hobbs modeled on Ted Williams; the 1939 Pirates went 68-85; Bret Hart's catchphrase; the halo shot was real; Bobby the Batboy was found at a produce stand; Levinson voiced the radio announcer; the $20,000 bribe is $366,000 today

In the discussion (10)
Approx. transcript time · 01:05:10Read transcript
  • Darren McGavin was cast late and would have received lesser billing than the other stars, so he chose to go uncredited; the hosts call it idiotic pride over practicality, since his IMDB is Love Boat, Fantasy Island and Rockford Files.
  • Randy Newman wrote the theme, the I Love L.A. guy whose song lives on at Laker games; Hobbs breaking the scoreboard clock was inspired by Bama Roel (as transcribed) of the Boston Braves showering Dixie Walker with glass at Ebbets Field on May 30, 1946, and the Wrigley clock was not introduced until 1941.
  • A director's cut six minutes longer trims the Redford and Close opening and adds Bump Bailey and Gus scenes; one host would not have minded more Bump given his sudden death and the Memo factor; a tangent on Bump as a nickname lands on calling Jason Gallagher Bump.
  • Roy's line that a big leaguer needs a lot of little boy in him was a Ray Campanella (as transcribed) quote; the film was shot in Buffalo at War Memorial Stadium, built in 1937 and demolished in 1988, whose short right field limited wide shots, and TriStar spent $500,000 aging it; the hosts protest the demolition and note Buffalo was good enough for the film but not Antonio Brown.
  • The lemonade shop where Glenn Close takes Roy is the real Parkside Candy Store at 3208 Main Street in Buffalo, serving ice cream, homemade candy and sandwiches; this leads to a wife who judges places by their signs and an old-school milkshake spot near Pasadena.
  • About 3,000 extras were recruited at the $3.35 minimum wage and cardboard people in straw boater hats filled the rest of the stands; the Hall of Fame has no record of anyone hitting the cover off a ball; the Savoy Special was a 1930s beer brand, and the bat and the bloody uniform are at Cooperstown.
  • Whether Roy would really bleed through a 20-pound fire-retardant uniform is parked for a later category; Hobbs was loosely modeled on Ted Williams, lefty number nine, who wanted to be the greatest hitter who ever lived.
  • The real 1939 Pirates finished 68-85 and the Reds won the pennant at 97-57; Brett the Hitman Heart (as transcribed) took 'the best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be' from this movie; the Glenn Close halo shot was timed to the setting sun, not CGI.
  • Bobby the Batboy was played by George Wilcoz (as transcribed), discovered at his parents' produce stand in Buffalo for his only movie, and he lingers two seconds too long after handing Roy the bat; Ruth Ann Steinhagen inspired Harriet; Barry Levinson did uncredited voice work as the Knights' radio play-by-play man.
  • The $20,000 bribe is about $366,000 in today's money; the hosts wonder what a stake in a 1939 team was worth to justify bribing everybody in sight, guessing the gambling money was worth nearly as much since there was no TV money.
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1:19:03

Picking Nits

The Wrigley clock and national anthem anachronisms; Hobbs never asks how old Iris's son is; Fowler's three-hitter thr...

The Wrigley clock and national anthem anachronisms; Hobbs never asks how old Iris's son is; Fowler's three-hitter throw job; gibberish newspaper copy and shifting dates; Roy's silver bullet, stomach lining and exploding-stomach medicine; Pop's lineup construction; nobody hears the gunshot in the owner's box; Roy never changes his name though he did nothing wrong

In the discussion (9)
Approx. transcript time · 01:19:03Read transcript
  • Time-frame issues: the Wrigley Field clock, and a national anthem sung before a game, which did not happen until after World War II.
  • Hobbs never puts two and two together about his son, asking 'your boy?' without the natural follow-up of how old he is.
  • Fowler, bribed to throw the last game, throws a three-hitter and makes one mistake in eight innings, when a pitcher could simply walk a bunch of dudes and give up a five-run inning.
  • The newspaper copy under the headlines is gibberish when frozen, and the dates go back and forth, making the timeline hard to follow, though the newspapers and magazine covers are loved as a gimmick.
  • Everything about Roy's internal organs is confounding: the bullet could not be removed after 72 hours in a coma yet comes out perfectly after the poisoning, the doctor warns his stomach could explode, and the blood at the end has no clear source beyond opened stitches; it is called completely illogical and a mess.
  • Pop's lineup construction is abhorrent: the slowest guy in the two spot, and a fourth outfielder subbed in to bat third in the playoff game when Roy is crossed out.
  • Nobody hears a gunshot in the owner's box before the game; Roy works to hide his past yet never changes his name, and the hosts cannot see what he did wrong, since Harriet killed three other people and jumped out a window, like being blamed for Ted Bundy's suicide.
  • Earlier, whether Max Mercy should have remembered Roy right away is dismissed as fine, while whether Roy could still pitch with the bullet in his side is parked for nits or unanswerable questions; pain tolerance and no Toradol are the offered answers.
  • Whether Roy would really bleed through his heavy fire-retardant uniform was flagged during research as a possible nitpick.
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1:30:07

Probably Unanswerable Questions

What did Roy do in his 15 or 16 years away? Does he stay away from Iris out of shame? Is Kim Basinger a good actress?...

What did Roy do in his 15 or 16 years away? Does he stay away from Iris out of shame? Is Kim Basinger a good actress? Why did Iris never marry? Was the barn the first time they had sex, and did she time it? Would the final game be the best sports-movie game to attend? What headlines did we not see? What did Iris's note say? What if the Whammer had made contact? What happens in the World Series? What were Roy Hobbs' stats?

In the discussion (13)
Approx. transcript time · 01:30:07Read transcript
  • What did Roy do for 15 or 16 years away from baseball, and how many women did he sleep with, since he cannot keep Wonderboy in his pants; whether he calls his penis Wonderboy is a joke question.
  • Does Roy stay away from Iris out of shame at being seduced by the first person he met after falling for her? He confesses with grace later, so it feels like a contradiction, and he seems to consciously choose her to reveal himself to; wouldn't she have read about the shooting in Iowa in 1923?
  • A mailbag answer from 15 years ago pictured Roy playing semi-pro ball in the middle of nowhere, running a general store and walking around wistfully with his hands in his pockets, not dating much after the lady in black.
  • Is Kim Basinger a good actress, since this performance is really over the top? Why did the lady in white never marry: the stigma of unmarried motherhood in the 1920s, or being in love with Roy the whole time, with a Wonderboy joke about working wood.
  • Was the barn the first time Roy and Iris had sex, and the only time in her life? Did she set a trap, timing it as a last chance before he left, since she believed he would be the best ever; the counterpoints are whether she knew about ovulation cycles in 1923 and why she does not tell him about the kid immediately when reunited.
  • Would the final game be the greatest sports-movie game to attend? One host still goes with the end of Victory with Sly Stallone and the escape from the Nazi guards; the walk-off is the reason to be there and the reason not to, since every light explodes and glass shards rain down.
  • What headlines did we not see after the walk-off? Joke headlines about an exploding-stomach injury, 23 dead in a stadium light detonation, and police failing to respond to the gunshot call.
  • What did Iris's note say and how did she phrase the reveal? A joke version has her saying the 16-year-old does not know how to play baseball and must be taught in the wheat field.
  • If the Whammer had made contact, Harriet would have killed him instead, since she was chasing the best ever; the Knights would then lose the World Series to the Yankees in the Lou Gehrig year, with neither Hobbs nor Gehrig playing again.
  • What were Roy Hobbs' stats: a 2001 Page 2 mailbag estimate became an important early writer moment for one host because it spread across the internet, and Roy now has a baseball reference page based on it.
  • Freeze-framing the digital copy redates the career: first at bat July 5, a slump in August, 11 homers by the August 14 Life Magazine cover, the lady in white game on September 3 and a four-homer barrage in Chicago the next day; the revised guess is 70 to 75 games, about 290 at bats, 28 to 33 homers and 70 to 80 RBI with a .350 to .370 average, .447 to .450 on base and .750 slugging, modeled on a Bonds season.
  • Barry Bonds' 2004 season was better than Roy Hobbs' half season, though Roy swung at an intentional walk and Bonds had no silver bullet in his stomach; Zach Cram (as transcribed) may have to figure it out, since everyone online cites the flawed original research, and a near-.400 average would have made a headline.
  • If Roy hit the open market now, critics would tear down his one-dimensional game: a throwing arm, but a possible clubhouse cancer, not a great defender, slow on the bases, a little me-first.
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