In the formal casting what-ifs, most having been covered already, the one new item is that Fincher cast Emily Ratajkowski on a recommendation from Ben Affleck, which the hosts find the funniest thing they have heard and worth a shout-out, joking about hiring her as a football writer to cover the NFC.
Jon Hamm was going to play Nick but Matthew Weiner would not let him out of his contract for the last season of Mad Men, the way The Office accommodated Ed Helms filming The Hangover at night; the part could have ignited Hamm's career as Don Draper in a bad marriage, though whether Hamm would have done the side dick is called the only question that matters.
The case against Hamm is that the role needs innate likability, and nobody ever simply liked Don Draper even if Hamm is loved in The Town and Baby Driver; the counter is that Nick is supposed to seem rationally likable yet somehow repellent, which Hamm could swing.
The relationship we have with Hamm is with Don Draper, while with Affleck it is with Affleck the public person; a Hamm version would still have been a good movie, because the film is about marriage, what women and men say they want, stardom and the media, bigger than Fincher's narcissism explanation; another voice thinks Hamm would have been good but loves that Affleck did this at the point of his completed comeback.
Tom Cruise as Nick Dunn is floated, with one voice calling the idea amazing, and rejected by the rest: he is too short and lacks Affleck's bulk and wide shoulders, you need to believe Nick can keep up with Amy, you need to see his belly exposed when he rolls over, and nobody can picture Cruise sitting down for Battlefield 3; Clooney fifteen years earlier is possible but a little too skinny.
Reese Witherspoon obtained the film rights intending to produce and play Amy, met Fincher and somehow gave the part up; the hosts cannot picture her riding Neil Patrick Harris covered in blood, finding her too earnest, open and likable to go dead-eyed the way Amy requires.
Other names reported for Amy: Charlize and Natalie Portman, both of whom would have been interesting though Charlize carries baggage as an actress, Emily Blunt, Rooney Mara whom Fincher had just worked with, Olivia Wilde, and strangest of all Dancing with the Stars' Julianne Hough, who got far down the road before her bid at a serious acting career stalled.
Fincher wanted an actress with a Faye Dunaway in Chinatown persona, someone who has experienced avenues of pain no one can articulate; he settled on Rosamund Pike because at 35 she could pass for 29 or 40, she was an only child like Amy, and after four or five of her movies he had never got a beat on her, an opacity he found interesting, when the natural move would have been Charlize.
Fincher has always had an eye for unproven, on-the-cusp talent, Pitt in Seven, Eisenberg and Rooney Mara in The Social Network, Mahershala Ali and Taraji Henson in Benjamin Button; the hosts expected Pike's career to go somewhere else after her Oscar nomination, and before this her notable role was Jack Reacher, an embarrassing part two years earlier.
Asked whether baggage with a real celebrity hurts a part like this, the answer is that for Amy you need to be totally confused about the person, the opposite of the Affleck character whom you must root for implicitly, so somebody you have never seen before makes it scarier. — Shea Serrano
Pike's biggest role until then was Jane Bennett in Pride and Prejudice, the book that turns up in the bookshop where they have sex.
Asked whether the movie could be remade as a ten-episode Netflix show, the answer after a detour is no, it would be bad.
A sequel pitch: The Hangover 2 should have been a blackjack card-counting movie that goes wrong with the casinos after them, going back the next weekend with Ed Helms on a date with Jade and Phil and Alan counting cards; a Phil trilogy or a seven-up style series returning to him every seven years is wished for, Phil being a comedy anti-hero like Kenny Powers; a John Wick 2 and 3 model picking up right after, getting banned and moving to Monaco or Macau, leveraging Galifianakis as a card savant, would have beaten the gangster movie the sequels became.
Nominated lines: 'I didn't know they gave out rings at the Holocaust'; 'it's at the corner of get a map and fuck off'; the reminder that their best friend Doug is probably face down in a ditch with a meth head butt-fucking his corpse; and Bradley Cooper on Alan, 'he's like a gremlin, comes with instructions and shit'.
'Phil was always our designated drunk driver' was a very 2009 line you could not joke about now; 'yeah, I do believe that because she's grossed out by semen' is really funny; and the exchange between Alan and Rachel Harris' character after Ed Helms walks away, with the bartender's license and 'suck my dick' answered 'no thank you'.
Not a line but a moment: the way Bradley Cooper behaves during Alan's blackjack run, yelling 'fuck you, he's a dealer' and flipping off the security cameras; the hosts have seen guys get too familiar with dealers, and one does the overhead camera joke, shouting 'turn it on' when a table is running; after moving on they realize they never picked and settle on the Holocaust line as the funniest joke.
Earlier, during the research segment, the Holocaust ring line was flagged as one host's intended best line and the funniest thing in the movie.
The villa could not cost 4,200 dollars; Alan looks nothing like his sister; how the tiger got into Caesars; where the chicken came from; nobody checked the roof for a full day; Doug sits on 80,000 in Bellagio chips for two hours; the room damage bill; the tiger never used the bathroom; no rehearsal dinner; Stu hanging up on his girlfriend with no fallout; a Sunday backyard wedding; the fiancee accepting the extra night; whether Stu, Doug and Phil are even friends
There is no way the room costs 4,200 dollars, which really bothers one host; in 2009 it would have been eight to ten thousand and now around twenty, unless it was a day-of rate or a Caesars-approved trick to lure people into villas.
Whether they are ever held accountable for the room damage is held for later; Alan was the bride's brother yet looks nothing like her, so he must have been adopted, though another host feels he does look like Tambor's offspring and it is the fiancee who does not.
How did they steal the tiger and get it into Caesars Palace when there are always people in the lobby even at five in the morning; Cooper's oral history bit that the cast showed up after night shoots with tiger scratches and nobody blinked is enjoyed, though people would blink at a tiger; where the chicken came from is better left unanswered.
Nobody thought to check the roof during a full day of searching, with Ed Helms' epiphany coming 24 hours in; in mitigation, these guys are stupid, they were roofied, and they were misled into thinking Doug was with them at dinner.
Doug waits two hours to tell them he found 80,000 dollars of Bellagio chips in his pocket; the speaker would lead with that in the first seven minutes. — Bill Simmons
The chips note is mocked as 'hey guys, I'm super sunburned, but good news, 80,000 chips right here'; nobody recalls them being in Barstow getting chips, and the money presumably gets split four ways.
The room damage, carried over from unanswerable questions, would be 20K easy or 20 to 50, given Vegas charges 11 dollars for a water bottle and hundreds for a broken lamp, and they definitely got soaked on the second night; it is also hard to believe the tiger never shit in the bathroom, excused as a road game and no morning coffee yet.
One host's biggest nitpick, bigger than any tiger issue, is that a huge wedding on a Sunday has no rehearsal dinner.
When Ed Helms hangs up on his girlfriend from the back of the cop car she would definitely be calling the Las Vegas people and the fiancee for the next three hours, since she thinks they are in wine country; the idea of calling to say you will be a day late might fit the payphone era, but this was 2009 not 1999, everyone has cell phones and there is texting in the movie, so bad job on tigers and texting, great job on everything else; there is definitely a rehearsal dinner that Saturday.
The Sunday outdoor wedding at somebody's house is ludicrous; nobody gets married on a Sunday unless they are saving money, which is called bullshit and a money save, and Craig is told no getting married on a Sunday.
Earlier, during what aged worst, the fiancee accepting the guys staying an extra night and getting back the day of the wedding was flagged and deferred to nitpicks.
Whether Stu, Doug and Phil are really friends was earmarked for the nitpicks: it is a weird threesome, and the guess is Doug was friends with each separately and united them.
Justin Bartha and Ed Helms doing The Office at the same time are offered first and answered 'two for two'; Cooper is a no; Galifianakis is weighed against Due Date.
One host votes Galifianakis and is once again confused by the category; Todd Phillips is a hundred percent yes, six years removed from Old School with School for Scoundrels a miss in between and everything after this a big deal, especially when you make 70 million on one movie; Galifianakis probably too, at the peak of success and creative cachet.
Rob Riggle is a yes, having had a CBS sitcom; the Dan Band is not, since Wedding Crashers is preferred and this repeats it; Ken Jeong is a yes, or Community, and one host does not care about him.
Whether Vegas itself hit Apex Mountain in 2009, more than Sinatra at the Sands, splits the room one to one: one host says no but wants the conversation and would take Casino over this, noting Vegas makes more money than ever; this was right after the housing crisis started but before it demolished casino projects, and another says yes because Vegas is like pop music, ever replenishing for young people, though it was in trouble five years ago; Vegas is therefore not listed as a yes.
Inspired by producer Trip Vinson's real missing bachelor party; Ed Helms' missing tooth was real, a pulled dental implant; Helms shot The Office by day and the film by night; a prosthetic was used for the end-credits blowjob photo; the script sold for two million and was rewritten by Phillips and Jeremy Gerlach (as transcribed), who added Tyson, the tiger, the baby and the police cruiser; Caesars guests still quote the check-in lines; Galifianakis improvised the Holocaust ring line; Todd Phillips traded his fee for 16 percent of the film and made about 80 million
The story was inspired by a real event: Trip Vinson, a producer and friend of executive producer Chris Bender, went missing from his own bachelor party and woke up in a strip joint being threatened with a huge bill; Ed Helms' missing tooth was real, not CGI, because he had a dental implant for a missing adult incisor since his teens and they pulled it out.
Helms was shooting The Office at the same time, flying from Vegas to Van Nuys at four in the morning to shoot all day and the film all night; he said that stretch of The Office shows him out of his mind, slurring with a fake tooth in and living on Red Bulls.
Asked whether they like Ed Helms, one host respectfully does not, except in this movie, disliking the type of guy he plays; he is nonetheless one of the most successful comedy actors of his generation, with Vacation, the Night at the Museum movies, We're the Millers, Tag and animated films, the CJ McCollum of actors nobody leads a podcast with.
For the explicit final photo of Zach getting a blowjob, a prosthetic penis was used and an old porn actor was found to perform on it, prompting 'what a great podcast'.
John Lucas (as transcribed) and Scott Moore sold the script for two million; it was rewritten by Jeremy Gerlach (as transcribed) and Todd Phillips, who added the Tyson, the tiger, the baby and the police cruiser, which led to a WGA credit dispute; the two songs were improvised.
The film had a major impact on Caesars, where guests still quote 'Did Caesar live here?' and the pager-friendly line at check-in; the hosts advise against it since the staff have heard it; Galifianakis improvised 'I didn't know they gave out rings of the Holocaust' (as transcribed) and the filmmakers debated whether to keep it.
Todd Phillips' deal is called almost too good for the segment: his fee was about six and a half million, Legendary wanted to cut the budget after losing the stars they expected, and instead of half his fee he took no fee for points, ending up with 16 percent of the movie and about 80 million dollars, probably still earning from streaming; the four then negotiated as a quartet for the next two.
The end-credits photo reveal now that everyone knows it is coming; the sequels; the surprise of the Mike Tyson cameo; the mystique of Vegas; Who Let the Dogs Out; Justin Bartha not becoming famous; Ken Jeong's crazy Asian stereotype; Ed Helms' glasses frames; Mike Tyson's potbelly
The end credits are argued as aged worst: ten years later it is hard to capture how funny the photo reveal was in the theater, with Wayne Newton, Carrot Top and Galifianakis getting blown ratcheting it up 17 notches; comedies are hard to end and this one sent people out saying it was the funniest movie they had ever seen, but now everybody knows it is coming.
The sequels have aged terribly and one host would rather pretend two and three did not happen; the makers more or less disavowed three as done for the money; two has moments, is pretty dark and is set in Thailand.
The surprise Mike Tyson cameo was a massive surprise and a marketing draw in 2009 and now carries no surprise; Tyson has acknowledged battling drugs during the shoot.
The mystique of Vegas has turned into something else, so commercialized that a movie like this now would feel like branded content and a partial money grab with strategically placed things.
Who Let the Dogs Out feels like ten years ago, a very literal case of aging badly, though they were already making it a joke, with the 'who brought this guy along' exchange recited.
Justin Bartha because he did not come out of this famous; Sudeikis or Gyllenhaal in the part would not have mattered since Doug is barely in the movie.
One host saw Bartha in the wild at a wine tasting around 2012, dating one of the Olsen twins, seeming really happy and thriving.
Another host and his wife saw him at dinner at the SLS hotel one table over with both Olsen twins, and then Galifianakis showed up, which made LA feel very weird six months after the movie; the four obviously became real friends, which may belong in what aged best.
The final one is called probably the winner: Ken Jeong playing up the tiny-dick crazy Asian stereotype, funny in the moment but not great, which Donnie Quack (as transcribed) wrote about on the Ringer last year; the fiancée accepting an extra night is held for nitpicks.
The homophobia is raised and shrugged off; there are a couple of lines you would be surprised to hear in a movie again.
An early aside proposes tabling the category because it would ruin what is fun about the movie, then offers Ed Helms' little rectangular glasses frames and a fat Mike Tyson whose potbelly could be fixed with CGI.
The soundtrack: generic, predictable songs that are perfectly executed and make sense with the plot, not a Dazed and Confused soundtrack but what guys going to Vegas then would be listening to; the music under the blackjack scene with the numbers is smart, and the T.I. song Live Your Life was huge and still is.
A tangent on which songs from this century have joined the wedding mix: Heya (as transcribed) by Outkast, probably the T.I. song, Bruno Mars, Adele, and 1901 by Phoenix heard at 18 weddings, pitched as a Ringer piece.
Todd Phillips' taste for hard rock, the Danzig song at the start and the Metallica in Old School; the Dan Band has also aged well, with future generations asking why they never played the Super Bowl halftime show, and the 'just the tip' setup turning inappropriate fast.
Rachel Harris as the girlfriend from hell is an incredible character, every stereotype put on steroids to make her the worst character of all time; the 'you fucked a waiter on a cruise' bit and Galifianakis's 'what did she say' after Helms walks away are singled out.
The elevator scene with Todd Phillips' cameo; his habit of going down on a woman in his own movies is his version of Hitchcock walking across the frame.
Alan reading the letter on the roof with 'that's why they call it Sin City'; the subtle cut where he is finishing a description of the Ted Danson and Magnum PI movie as they head to Heather Graham's hotel; and the 'it's not illegal, it's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane' exchange ending in 'thanks a lot, Bin Laden', the hardest one host laughed.
'Alan, you're the man' answered with 'you are too, Phil' shows he has no idea how to be one of the guys; his aping of Phil throughout is well done; the two made-up songs are enjoyed, and Ed Helms' piano song while they wait for the tiger to fall asleep was apparently ad-libbed.
Old-school, last-decade Vegas; every Alan line, especially 'this isn't the real Caesar's Palace, is it? Did Caesar live here?', and the pitch-perfect reaction of the woman at the desk.
How high Alan ranks in the pantheon of comedy characters: the criterion is someone who was not the star but stole the movie, so Frank the Tank, John Candy in Stripes, Bill Murray and Ted Knight in Caddyshack, Rick Moranis in Ghostbusters, Matt Dillon and Chris Elliott in There's Something About Mary, Michael Keaton in Night Shift, Steve Carell and Paul Rudd in Anchorman, McLovin, the Wedding Crashers character as the backfire case and Melissa McCarthy in Bridesmaids as the perfect example.
Galifianakis belongs in that conversation as the breakout; John Candy in Stripes was like that for a host who knew him only as Ox and never watched SCTV; Galifianakis is named the big winner.
The movie stood up in total for a host without as much of a rewatchable relationship to it; the actual plot of what happened to them is well done, with Jade, Mr. Chow and the roof payoff; the brevity, about an hour thirty-five with no wasted section, makes it the last comedy before the two-hour-ten Apatow era.
The DVD's deleted scenes were anticipated; the end credit sequence has held up as a convention, 'they pretty much invented Marvel right there', though another host had it for what aged worst.
First nominee is the drive to Vegas, a fantastic five and a half minutes from the gas station stop through Galifianakis in the car to checking in at the hotel; Phil starts drinking as soon as he gets in the car, like the two guys at every bachelor party who get wrecked on the way there, and the others realize in the car that Galifianakis has 17 screws loose.
Waking up in the hotel room not knowing what happened is phenomenal: a nice camera move that follows a disoriented Ed Helms looking around, Galifianakis naked pissing next to a tiger he does not register for ten seconds, a chicken from nowhere, everybody sleeping on the floor and the woman sneaking out; a smart scene that sets up everything.
Brunch with Carlos the baby: Cooper's 'not at the table, Carlos' and the bit where he pretends to jerk off the baby hits one host's funny bone every time, so inappropriate it would never happen now; the hosts like that the baby is named Carlos and seeing him in the Bjorn.
From the Hollywood Reporter oral history: Galifianakis did the bit first with a doll while the shot was set up, Todd Phillips waited for the baby's mom to go upstairs and asked the dad, who answered that his wife would be gone for half an hour and asked them to do it in that window; it belongs in the conversation of all-time inappropriate throwaway laughs alongside Stripes and Caddyshack.
Further nominees: the stun gun scene, Tyson reviewing the security footage, getting the tiger out of the car with Bradley Cooper pretending to hump it from behind while calling it a beautiful majestic animal, the blackjack scene with the calculus floating in front of Galifianakis's face, and the wedding reception with the Dan Band and Ed Helms breaking up with his girlfriend, about ten minutes one host had forgotten the movie still had.
One host goes for the entire police precinct sequence, not just the stun gun but the payphone call, the kid taking a cell phone picture and the phone kicked out of his hands; it is called the funniest thing Rob Riggle has ever done, with 'in the face' recited.
Brian Callen's wedding chapel scene is added as an amendment to how he was treated on the Old School episode: the same character and Greek accent, greeting them as the craziest bastard he ever met, the first clue in putting the puzzle back together, plus the baby goat while he is on the phone pretending to be in Napa; the hosts think he never found the right role and that the Greek grifter should have his own series.
One vote goes to brunch with Carlos the baby together with the Bjorn elevator ride to the brunch, the speaker's favorite part of the movie.
About four weeks ago the speaker and his son were flipping channels when the movie came on during the drive, not as a planned viewing; the son did not see the closing credits, was dying laughing at everything Zach Galifianakis did, and also liked Ken Jeong's character. — Bill Simmons
