‹ All movies

The Arthur Lee Allen interrogation

The category is framed as hard for this film, so the nominees mix lighter and darker scenes: the cold open first murder, called one of the crowning achievements of Fincher's career; the credit sequence that sets up the world with economy and panache, and the trolley of mail carrying the first Zodiac letter into the Chronicle as one of the only set pieces outside the murders; the Graysmith-Avery bar scene with the Aqua Velva; the Napa murder; the 'This is the Zodiac speaking' call with Melvin; the talk-show sequence; and the 'I am not the Zodiac' interrogation.

One vote and one honorable mention are offered: the honorable mention is the late scene where Graysmith lays out that Darlene Farron (as transcribed) worked at the Vallejo House of Pancakes less than fifty yards door to door from Arthur Lee Allen's mother's basement on Fresno Street, the only real 'we solved it' moment apart from the questioning of Allen; that interrogation in a factory break room, with Allen volunteering that the bloody knives in his car came from a chicken he killed for dinner and the three detectives silently registering his watch, is called spectacular and put at the top of that list.

"You owe me another lamp"

Nominees are read with no winner declared: Toski (as transcribed) picking up the phone with 'you owe me another lamp'; the Avery-Graysmith exchange where 'I love to read' and 'I enjoy books' draw 'those are the same two things'; Avery's 'hey bullet' taunt about whether Toski will ever catch the guy; Avery's speech that more people die in the East Bay commute every three months than this idiot ever killed, who offed a few citizens, wrote a few letters and faded into a footnote; 'Jesus Herald Christ on rubber crutches, Bobby'; and the exchange about the thing Avery doesn't like that starts with an L, looming.

The film

Zodiac (2007)

Directed by David Fincher · Crime / Thriller

157 minutes

Cast

Selected cast credits · Film reference

Jake Gyllenhaal Robert Graysmith
Mark Ruffalo Inspector Dave Toschi
Robert Downey Jr. Paul Avery
Anthony Edwards Inspector Bill Armstrong
Brian Cox Melvin Belli
Charles Fleischer Bob Vaughn
Zach Grenier Mel Nicolai
Philip Baker Hall Sherwood Morrill
Elias Koteas Sergeant Jack Mulanax
James LeGros Detective George Bawart
Donal Logue Captain Ken Narlow
John Carroll Lynch Arthur Leigh Allen
Dermot Mulroney Captain Marty Lee
Chloë Sevigny Melanie Graysmith
John Terry Charles Thieriot
June Diane Raphael Carol Toschi
Ciara Moriarty Darlene Ferrin
Adam Goldberg Duffy Jennings
Tom Verica Jim Dunbar
Lee Norris Mike Mageau
Jimmi Simpson Older Mike Mageau
Joel Bissonnette Inspector Kracke
John Getz Templeton Peck
John Mahon Captain Gillette
Matt Winston John Allen
Jules Bruff Catherine Allen
John Ennis Terry Pascoe
Patrick Scott Lewis Bryan Hartnell
Pell James Cecelia Shepard
Clea DuVall Linda del Buono
Zachary Sauers Aaron Graysmith
Micah Sauers David Graysmith
Candy Clark Carol Fisher
Paul Schulze Sandy Panzarella
John Hemphill Donald Cheney
Ed Setrakian Al Hyman
Bob Stephenson Zodiac 3
John Lacy Zodiac 4

Everything from the episode

In the order the hosts got to it. Open a row for the discussion.

38:40

Half-Assed Internet Research

Oak trees were helicoptered in for the Lake Berryessa murder scene; all the gore was added with CGI because repeated ...

Oak trees were helicoptered in for the Lake Berryessa murder scene; all the gore was added with CGI because repeated takes made fake blood impractical; the film was shot digitally apart from the opening sequence; James Ellroy called the three lead performances inadequate yet the film great; Downey left jars of urine on set to protest the long hours

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 00:38:40Read transcript
  • When the crew arrived to shoot the lake murder scene in Napa the oak trees were no longer there, so Fincher had oak trees flown in by helicopter and temporarily planted with water to keep them alive for the shot; the hosts joke about the trees flying commercial to Santa Rosa next to Groot.
  • Fincher used CGI for everything gory because with so many takes fake blood would have meant wiping down the set each time, so for the taxicab murder he could shoot a hundred takes of Mark Ruffalo unlocking a door and add the blood splatter later; the opening sequence was shot on film and the rest digitally, edited on an Avid rig, and much of the tangible period feel the hosts admire is actually post-production.
  • James Elroy (as transcribed), whose Black Dahlia Fincher was going to direct before Brian De Palma did, is quoted finding it most interesting that Gyllenhaal, Downey and Ruffalo are miserable in the film, three inadequate and unconvincing performances he does not believe a word of, and that it is still a great movie; the hosts observe he is in harmony with Andy Greenwald.
  • An earlier research aside on Fincher's methods: Downey reportedly left jars of urine around the set to protest the long hours and decided to give Fincher what he wanted because he understands gulags; Gyllenhaal is quoted on takes running from five to ninety plus reshoots that left him asking where the risk was; Fincher's reply was that he is not interested in earnestness, the thing he hates most in acting, and that about fifteen takes gets actors out of it.
47:18

Casting What-Ifs

Gary Oldman was to play Melvin Belli but was judged not heavy enough; Jennifer Aniston recommended Mark Ruffalo to Fi...

Gary Oldman was to play Melvin Belli but was judged not heavy enough; Jennifer Aniston recommended Mark Ruffalo to Fincher; Andrew Garfield as a later Graysmith; Anthony Hopkins as Arthur Leigh Allen

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 00:47:18Read transcript
  • The only casting what-if with any internet leftovers is Melvin Belli: Gary Oldman was supposed to play the role, and Fincher passed because he lacked the girth to play Belli, which lands oddly now that Oldman is playing Winston Churchill in all his girth in Darkest Hour; the hosts ask why a director who can add blood splatter could not add a few pounds, doubt anyone cares whether Belli weighed 250 or 175, and joke that human body fat is as sacred to Fincher as oak trees.
  • Ruffalo was recommended to Fincher by Jennifer Aniston, and Fincher had liked him in Collateral.
  • A side question asks whether Andrew Garfield, a little more of a boy scout, would have been a better Graysmith had the film been made five years later; Eisenberg is floated and rejected, and Gyllenhaal is called alarmingly handsome despite the wide-eyed look, as is Garfield.
  • Asked whether the film still works with a huge star like Anthony Hopkins as Arthur, the answer is not as well: it has to be a face whose physical presence unsettles because you feel you could have seen him without knowing why, since viewers bring previous films into the room and would read a famous actor as an important part, and the only place to remember Lynch is Fargo, where Norm is a completely different, friendly disposition.
55:54

Picking Nits

Chloe Sevigny's underserved storyline

Chloe Sevigny's underserved storyline

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:55:54Read transcript
  • The nit is that Chloe Sevigny's storyline is not served well, which all agree on; it may even be accurate to a wife Graysmith did not pay enough attention to, and a Wikipedia check confirms he married Melanie and they divorced in 1980, but it is unfortunate that it plays out that way in every Fincher movie.

Mentions across The Rewatchables