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The Rewatchables ·

Wall Street

year 1987decade 80sdirector Oliver Stonegenre Crimegenre Drama
host Bill Simmonshost Brian Koppelman
All 17 categories

Most Rewatchable Scene · 39:38

Bud's first five-minute meeting with Gecko

Brian Koppelman: Marty Sheen's first scene with Charlie, with the spaghetti and "money is something you only need in case you don't die tomorrow", is flagged as important; real-life father and son add an extra layer.

Brian Koppelman: Gecko's first scene when Bud finally gets in is praised: "you're the kid who called me 59 days in a row", a scene said to run exactly five minutes, the staging, the Terminator coming in and out, and the blood-pressure line; "to me, that's the scene."

The Neil McCauley “A Book about Metals” Award for Best Line from the Movie · 59:28

"You're smart enough not to buy into the oldest myth running: love"

Nominees include "I don't bet on darts on the board, I bet on sure things", the funeral-parlor line, "every orifice in his body flowing red", "If you're not inside, you're outside" and "Money never sleeps, pal."

The film

Wall Street (1987)

Directed by Oliver Stone · Crime

126 minutes

Find on IMDb Find on JustWatch Find on Rotten Tomatoes
Cast

Selected cast credits · Film reference

Michael Douglas Gordon Gekko
Charlie Sheen Bud Fox
Daryl Hannah Darien Taylor
Martin Sheen Carl Fox
Terence Stamp Sir Larry Wildman
Hal Holbrook Lou Mannheim
Sean Young Kate Gekko
James Spader Roger Barnes
Saul Rubinek Harold Salt
James Karen Harry Lynch
Josh Mostel Ollie
Sylvia Miles Dolores the Realtor
Paul Guilfoyle Stone Livingstone

Everything from the episode

In the order the hosts got to it. Open a row for the discussion.

39:22

Roger Ebert's review
In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 00:39:22Read transcript
  • Roger Ebert gave the movie three and a half stars and really liked it; there were no other major Oscar nominations. — Brian Koppelman
  • Asked what Cisco thought, the reply is that only Ebert was checked because he is all over the map. — Brian Koppelman
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39:38

Most Rewatchable Scene

Bud's first five-minute meeting with Gecko

Bud's first five-minute meeting with Gecko

In the discussion (14)
Approx. transcript time · 00:39:38Read transcript
  • Marty Sheen's first scene with Charlie, with the spaghetti and "money is something you only need in case you don't die tomorrow", is flagged as important; real-life father and son add an extra layer. — Brian Koppelman
  • Gecko's first scene when Bud finally gets in is praised: "you're the kid who called me 59 days in a row", a scene said to run exactly five minutes, the staging, the Terminator coming in and out, and the blood-pressure line; "to me, that's the scene." — Brian Koppelman
  • The limo pep talk ends on an indelible knock on the window and "you got me"; its $400,000-a-year speech sent more douchebags to business school than anything, telling a generation that flying first class made you a sucker. — Brian Koppelman
  • In research, Sheen, Douglas and Stone all say people told them for years that the movie was why they became brokers or went to business school. — Brian Koppelman
  • The Anacott Steel montage takes off with music, calls and a director cameo. — Brian Koppelman
  • Gecko versus Sir Larry, with the "sell your mother" insult and the "since you brought my mother into it" negotiation, leads to the Hampton's beach call with the giant cell phone; Terence Stamp is a casting coup who can dominate Douglas, and the scene has Billions DNA. — Brian Koppelman
  • Bud's apartment montage with the Talking Heads, homemade sushi and a smoking jacket is a winner; a friend named Tom bought the sushi machine on eBay and it still works. — Brian Koppelman
  • The greed-is-good speech at Teldar is iconic but a little underwhelming on rewatch, with some weird edits; the clip is played. — Brian Koppelman
  • The Martin Sheen and Gecko union meeting, with the pharaoh prophecy and the elevator fight, feels like Charlie and Marty working out real stuff; Gecko dropping sushi through the table is a hilarious touch. — Brian Koppelman
  • Sheen confronting Gecko ("How many yachts can you water ski behind?", "I create nothing. I own.") is a hard scene that Stone wrote the shit out of. — Brian Koppelman
  • Other scenes: the Blue Star carve-up meeting with Spader and the shortest-tenure joke, the Blue Star stock roller coaster, and the final wire scene. — Brian Koppelman
  • The union meeting and elevator fight is a channel-flip favorite, but what brings you back over and over is the scene when Gecko meets Bud. — Brian Koppelman
  • Spader's first scene adds the improvised "What's in it for Wa?", and the whole opening, meeting Marv and the $100, is a high degree of difficulty. — Brian Koppelman
  • "I think you're right. I'm switching to your choice. First five minutes" follows the other voice calling the Gecko-Bud meeting "the scene" and "the five minutes" (100, 139) after the opening was offered as "the other scene", so the switch lands on the five-minute Gecko meeting.
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59:28

The Neil McCauley “A Book about Metals” Award for Best Line from the Movie

"You're smart enough not to buy into the oldest myth running: love"; "So you say"; "Save the cheap salesman talk"

"You're smart enough not to buy into the oldest myth running: love"; "So you say"; "Save the cheap salesman talk"

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 00:59:28Read transcript
  • Nominees include "I don't bet on darts on the board, I bet on sure things", the funeral-parlor line, "every orifice in his body flowing red", "If you're not inside, you're outside" and "Money never sleeps, pal."
  • A personal favorite is "you're smart enough not to buy into the oldest myth running, love, fiction created by people to keep them from jumping out of windows." — Brian Koppelman
  • Lines that got into everyday language: "So you say" when someone gives their name, which Bud later says to his dad, and "Save the cheap salesman talk." — Brian Koppelman
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1:00:47

What’s Aged the Best?

Terence Stamp; real-life father and son; Blue Horseshoe system; Gecko's art and rifle collection; private jet scene; ...

Terence Stamp; real-life father and son; Blue Horseshoe system; Gecko's art and rifle collection; private jet scene; Spader; Fly Me to the Moon; Holbrook's lines

In the discussion (12)
Approx. transcript time · 01:00:47Read transcript
  • Sushi has aged incredibly well, but it is flipped: sushi as an exotic thing you have to smell has aged the worst. — Brian Koppelman
  • Cigarettes are called aged-worst in this segment, yet the smoking everywhere is later called tremendous. — Brian Koppelman
  • Real-life family members playing family members, and the quote about someday being on the other end of that phone call as the point of the movie. — Brian Koppelman
  • The Blue Horseshoe system is solid, and "Blue Horseshoe loves" some companies has been said in one of the seasons of a later show. — Brian Koppelman
  • Sheen getting the first Gecko call and Gecko's underrated art and rifle collection. — Brian Koppelman
  • The "Mr. Cocksucker" one-liner and one of the first private jet scenes ever. — Brian Koppelman
  • Holbrook as the wet blanket, and Spader in the role he'd play 27 more times. — Brian Koppelman
  • Fly Me to the Moon as the theme song, the "minute I laid eyes on you" callback and the guy's cane. — Brian Koppelman
  • Holbrook's lines work as senior yearbook quotes; the character was modeled on Stone's father Lou. — Brian Koppelman
  • Sheen's last tip to create instead of living off buying and selling; a lot of the movie has aged the best, maybe not the cocaine. — Brian Koppelman
  • Gecko's future black-sheep son, whom the sequel reveals overdosed. — Brian Koppelman
  • The number-one picks are Terrence Stamp, who seems so modern, and the real-life father and son. — Brian Koppelman
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1:05:22

What’s Aged the Worst?

Darien character; looped beach-scene dialogue; Dave Winfield reference; handheld TV and giant cell phone; cheesy unio...

Darien character; looped beach-scene dialogue; Dave Winfield reference; handheld TV and giant cell phone; cheesy union rep; the sequel

In the discussion (10)
Approx. transcript time · 01:05:22Read transcript
  • The beach scene where Daryl Hannah's voice was looped is rough, including her wish for a Turner, a perfect canary diamond and world peace. — Brian Koppelman
  • Daryl Hannah is called miscast and bad; the counterpoint is that it's always the writing, citing the Laura Ashley furniture line. — Brian Koppelman
  • In the research, Hannah and Stone didn't get along and Sean Young told Stone in front of her that she should play the part; in Premiere, Stone admitted being tough with her and making her cry, which would not have aged well in 2020. — Brian Koppelman
  • Old-school directors slapped actresses to get performances, recalling a Belushi sketch; Hoffman slapping Merrill Streep on Kramer versus Kramer is cited as a big deal she still held a grudge about decades later. — Brian Koppelman
  • Conclusion: the character aged the worst because it is not a good character. — Brian Koppelman
  • The Dave Winfield reference, Gecko's two-inch handheld TV and his gigantic cell phone, apparently the first in a movie, narrowly ahead of Sir Larry's on the yacht. — Brian Koppelman
  • A Twitter question about who carried out Darian's furniture plan gets Shabby Sheik as the answer. — Brian Koppelman
  • Blue Star's lead union rep is cheesy, out of a Fantasy Island episode, while the flight attendants' rep is good. — Brian Koppelman
  • The sequel was a little better on rewatch but still not great; the wish is that Wall Street existed without it, though Shia LaBuff is good. — Brian Koppelman
  • Indoor smoking is proposed as aged-worst but the other host is pro indoor smoking; Gecko lighting a cigar inside took one host out of it. — Brian Koppelman
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1:13:16

Casting What-Ifs

Warren Beatty or Richard Gere as Gecko; Tom Cruise as Bud Fox; Jack Lemmon as Bud's father

Warren Beatty or Richard Gere as Gecko; Tom Cruise as Bud Fox; Jack Lemmon as Bud's father

In the discussion (9)
Approx. transcript time · 01:13:16Read transcript
  • Fox wanted Warren Beatty for Gecko, who wasn't interested; Stone wanted Richard Gear, who passed during a stretch of bad movies. — Brian Koppelman
  • Gear would have been good and looked great, as in Internal Affairs, but he does slow burn rather than the verbal pyrotechnics Douglas studies. — Brian Koppelman
  • Beatty holds months of conversations and then says no, as he did to Goldman on Misery. — Brian Koppelman
  • Gere's "I got nowhere else to go!" is praised, from a movie producer Craig has definitely never seen. — Brian Koppelman
  • An internet claim that Pacino turned down Gecko in a 1992 Barbara Walters interview is called bullshit; the guess is that his agent passed on a script Pacino never really wanted. — Brian Koppelman
  • Tom Cruise wanted Bud Fox and lobbied Stone, who was committed to Charlie; they later made Born on the Fourth of July. — Brian Koppelman
  • Stone gets chippy on the commentary about Bright Lights, Big City shooting at the same time; Michael J. Fox was a miscast there and Downey Jr. would have been a home run. — Brian Koppelman
  • Stone offered Charlie the choice of Jack Lemon or Martin Sheen as his father, and he picked his real father. — Brian Koppelman
  • Per Stone, Hannah was not happy in the role and he should have let her go; Sean Young almost got fired and a Bud affair storyline was cut. — Brian Koppelman
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1:18:18

The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award

Franklin Cover

Franklin Cover

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:18:18Read transcript
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1:19:20

The Ruffalo / Hanna / Rubinek / Partridge Overacting Award

Charlie Sheen in the Bud Darien breakup scene; Sylvia Miles as the real estate agent

Charlie Sheen in the Bud Darien breakup scene; Sylvia Miles as the real estate agent

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:19:20Read transcript
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1:19:41

The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance

Terence Stamp

Terence Stamp

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 01:19:41Read transcript
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1:22:24

Recasting Couch

Michelle Pfeiffer or Diane Lane as Darien

Michelle Pfeiffer or Diane Lane as Darien

In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 01:22:24Read transcript
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1:25:18

Half-Assed Internet Research

Greed line origin; Douglas breath training; scrapped affair subplot; real trading floor; predator camera; 53-day shoo...

Greed line origin; Douglas breath training; scrapped affair subplot; real trading floor; predator camera; 53-day shoot; Ken Lipper as consultant

In the discussion (7)
Approx. transcript time · 01:25:18Read transcript
  • The greed-is-good line was based on a speech Ivan Boski gave to the 1986 Berkeley business graduating class saying greed is right. — Brian Koppelman
  • Douglas, at 40 cigarettes a day, worked with a speech instructor on breath control; Gecko was modeled after Pat Riley. — Brian Koppelman
  • Stone had Bud Fox having an affair with Gecko's wife but scrapped it because Charlie Sheen and Sean Young hated each other. — Brian Koppelman
  • Sheen spent 45 minutes on the actual trading floor, with real brokers playing themselves. — Brian Koppelman
  • Stone told Premier Magazine the moving camera was meant to become the predator in a movie about sharks. — Brian Koppelman
  • The shoot took 53 days, seven days ahead of schedule and close to $2 million under budget, because of a coming director strike. — Brian Koppelman
  • Consultant Ken Lipper got the actors into Solomon Brothers, the 21 Club and the New York Stock Exchange, and sits next to Douglas at 21 in the movie. — Brian Koppelman
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1:27:19

Apex Mountain

Michael Douglas; Oliver Stone; goofy movie robots; steak tartar; squash

Michael Douglas; Oliver Stone; goofy movie robots; steak tartar; squash

In the discussion (7)
Approx. transcript time · 01:27:19Read transcript
  • Michael Douglas is at Apex with this or Fatal Attraction, becoming the biggest male star in the world. — Brian Koppelman
  • Oliver Stone is at Apex here after Platoon, letting him make any movie, leading to JFK, which is called his best movie. — Brian Koppelman
  • Charlie Sheen's Apex is argued to be the Two and a Half Men TV run or Platoon as an artist, not this movie; he was in a death match with Cruise for roles. — Brian Koppelman
  • Sean Young's Apex is No Way Out rather than this; Darrell Hanna could be argued for Roxanne. — Brian Koppelman
  • Wall Street itself is called an evergreen with no Apex; cocaine and limos are only maybe at the apex, and the Talking Heads peak is Stop Making Sense. — Brian Koppelman
  • Goofy movie robots are the favorite, a step crazier than Rocky 4, with Paul Guilfoyle playing with the robot. — Brian Koppelman
  • Early stealth Hamptons is raised; steak tartar is called at its high point, and squash is a call that is liked. — Brian Koppelman
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1:31:38

Picking Nits

Bad overdub in Gecko's speech; Bud at Spader's office during the liquidation meeting; dumping Marv too fast; the Who ...

Bad overdub in Gecko's speech; Bud at Spader's office during the liquidation meeting; dumping Marv too fast; the Who Am I moment; Gecko not suspecting a wire; no Emilio cameo

In the discussion (8)
Approx. transcript time · 01:31:38Read transcript
  • Wouldn't Sir Larry notice Sheen tailing him on a motorcycle? The reply is that he does a look when he sees Sheen with Gecko. — Brian Koppelman
  • A shouted line during Gecko's speech is one of the worst dubs ever, and there is a lot of that. — Brian Koppelman
  • Was Bud dumb enough to trust Gecko with Blue Star? The cocaine and parties are offered as an explanation. — Brian Koppelman
  • Bud randomly being at Spader's office during the Blue Star liquidation meeting is a script stretch, and he turns on his best friend Marv too quickly. — Brian Koppelman
  • The Who Am I moment is nitpicked a second time. — Brian Koppelman
  • Sheen crying in handcuffs is questioned as un-Bud-like, but the counter-guess is that Dennis Levine, the real person Bud was based on, probably cried. — Brian Koppelman
  • Gecko was too smart not to worry about a wire, and he didn't say enough in that scene to get arrested. — Brian Koppelman
  • Emilio could have made a cameo as the union rep or Sheen's other son; the Charlie Sheen cameo in the sequel was its best part. — Brian Koppelman
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1:34:22

Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake

Could work for Showtime; arguably already done

Could work for Showtime; arguably already done

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:34:22Read transcript
  • Technically it has already happened with "your show", and it could work for Showtime. — Brian Koppelman
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1:34:22

Probably Unanswerable Questions

Sheen becoming Bud Fox; Gecko's influence on Trump; a Cruise-Sheen swap; Gecko as Bobby Axelrod's spiritual father

Sheen becoming Bud Fox; Gecko's influence on Trump; a Cruise-Sheen swap; Gecko as Bobby Axelrod's spiritual father

In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 01:34:22Read transcript
  • Did Charlie Sheen eventually turn into Bud Fox? Yes. — Brian Koppelman
  • Gecko is estimated at about 10% of the influence behind late-80s Trump, part of a culture celebrating rich idiots. — Brian Koppelman
  • Swapping Cruise and Sheen between Cocktail and Wall Street: Cruise makes anything better and Sheen could not pull off Cocktail, which is likened to the 2007 Cavs. — Brian Koppelman
  • With Cruz, the cast could go up, maybe with Duval as the dad, and it might be one of the greatest movies ever. — Brian Koppelman
  • An answerable question: Bobby Axelrod surely watched Wall Street growing up and would never make Gecko's mistakes. — Brian Koppelman
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1:37:25

What Piece of Memorabilia Would You Want From This Movie?

Walking stick; giant cell phone; Hamptons house

Walking stick; giant cell phone; Hamptons house

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:37:25Read transcript
  • The sushi machine would be incredible because memorabilia you can use is perfect, but the walking stick is taken, to say "stop the chin wagon" during dialogue talks with Levine. — Brian Koppelman
  • The runner-up is the blue skull painting in Bud's apartment, one of the Julian Schnabel paintings. — Brian Koppelman
  • The number one choice is the giant Hamptons cell phone, then the Hamptons house itself, worth maybe $60 million now. — Brian Koppelman
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1:38:46

Who Won the Movie?

Michael Douglas

Michael Douglas

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:38:46Read transcript
  • Michael Douglas is the answer, and the reply is "I think you're right." — Brian Koppelman
  • A case is made for Oliver Stone: Platoon and Wall Street back to back, a movie that became a true piece of pop culture, and a peak he never reached again. — Brian Koppelman
  • It stays Douglas because this and Fatal Attraction made him the biggest star in the world, with a character that stood for a period of America. — Brian Koppelman
Podcast choices
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More from the conversation

A Spotify archive notice and ads open the episode, followed by a Wall Street trailer cold open.
Approx. transcript time · 00:00:00Read transcript
The guest is introduced as a co-creator of Billions and writer of Rounders who has been on the podcast before.
Approx. transcript time · 00:02:17Read transcript
Wall Street and Stripes are cited as movies whose first hour is nearly the best movie of all time before things turn; taking the adrenalized ride with Bud makes the crash brutal.
Approx. transcript time · 00:02:17Read transcript
Stone tested the same blueprint with Scarface, including a montage of buying things; the Scarface director's stylistic cool cuts against Stone, while here nobody reins Stone in.
Approx. transcript time · 00:03:53Read transcript
Written amid the 85-86 insider-trading stories and released in December 87, the movie hit the zeitgeist in real time, with Gecko read as pieces of real financiers 33 years later.
Approx. transcript time · 00:05:46Read transcript
Stone's dad was on Wall Street for about 30 years and Stone composited characters from people he knew; he decries this capitalism while also celebrating it, echoing where America was.
Approx. transcript time · 00:06:31Read transcript
Cocaine use is shown casually rather than as the thing that brings the main character down, which is called realistic for the era.
Approx. transcript time · 00:07:30Read transcript
For younger listeners: the gloomy 70s gave way to Reagan and money pouring into Wall Street under a greed-is-good mentality; Cocktail is called the little black sheep brother of Wall Street.
Approx. transcript time · 00:08:59Read transcript
Sweet Smell of Success and Executive Suite are named as Stone's biggest influences; the rapid-fire dialogue is likened to the Showtime Lakers pushing the ball.
Approx. transcript time · 00:10:45Read transcript
Research says Douglas struggled with the pace while smoking about 40 cigarettes a day and Stone challenged him in his trailer; the two men tell different versions after the 21 scene, each claiming credit for the Oscar, likened to Kobe versus Phil.
Approx. transcript time · 00:12:03Read transcript
A tangent on how origin stories get rewritten uses the creation of 30 for 30 as the example.
Approx. transcript time · 00:13:57Read transcript
Douglas was known first as Kirk Douglas's son and a producer; old Premiere magazines show Wall Street was not treated as a major movie, with critics around two to two and a half stars, but it was iconic by the end of the 80s.
Approx. transcript time · 00:16:00Read transcript
Critics dinged heavy symbolism such as the "Who am I?" moment and the raw meat; both hosts would cut the "Who am I?" moment, but the movie has proven itself with viewers.
Approx. transcript time · 00:17:22Read transcript
Michael is described as the most prepared actor one participant has worked with, knowing 100 pages of dialogue cold on a later film, and the smartest person in any room, which suits Gecko.
Approx. transcript time · 00:19:05Read transcript
Gordon Gecko belongs on any list of the best 80s characters and became the movie symbol of the era's financiers.
Approx. transcript time · 00:20:09Read transcript
The Pat Riley effect: Riley and Michael were friends whose hair inspired each other; Joel in Risky Business and Maverick are raised as other cool 80s characters.
Approx. transcript time · 00:20:45Read transcript
Wall Street could be released today and still seem modern; First Blood is the other suggestion, with a planned First Blood episode and a take that it is the greatest Vietnam movie.
Approx. transcript time · 00:21:57Read transcript
A Premier magazine quote from Stone says the film is about ethics, net worth becoming self-worth, and power rather than money.
Approx. transcript time · 00:22:35Read transcript
The dialogue is called one of the biggest influences on a writing partnership with Dave, alongside David Mamet, Spike Lee and Quentin; post-2008 Wall Street excess makes the film and Billions resonant.
Approx. transcript time · 00:23:47Read transcript
Wall Street and Wolf of Wall Street are called the two best movies about American business; tech billionaires such as Zuckerberg, Elon Musk and Bezos are Gecko 2.0 with nation-state wealth.
Approx. transcript time · 00:25:09Read transcript
Stone got the idea while working on Scarface from a Gecko-like acquaintance who got busted; Douglas was a fourth choice, while Stone was all in on Charlie Sheen from Platoon.
Approx. transcript time · 00:28:40Read transcript
Charlie Sheen, only 22, is called the David Thompson of actors; like Bud Fox he was newly successful and later got lost in the same ways.
Approx. transcript time · 00:29:17Read transcript
Premier magazine: Stone aged Sheen with suits and a haircut, and Sheen invested his own money and hung out with young brokers at Bear Stearns and Solomon Brothers.
Approx. transcript time · 00:31:55Read transcript
The deep supporting cast is listed, from Marty Sheen and early James Spader to Franklin Cover from the Jefferson's and Josh Mostel.
Approx. transcript time · 00:33:10Read transcript
A note at the 27-minute mark reads hookers, cocaine, limos and blowjobs: we are off.
Approx. transcript time · 00:34:20Read transcript
Oscars: Douglas won Best Actor but the screenplay by Oliver Stone and Stanley Weiser was shut out; Moonstruck won, and the snub is called a travesty.
Approx. transcript time · 00:34:33Read transcript
After Platoon Stone entered a backlash mode; before release he told Premiere it was strange to be a frontrunner and he preferred being a dark horse.
Approx. transcript time · 00:36:01Read transcript
Stone is called a great artist and one of the greatest screenwriters but not necessarily a decent person; his father spent every dollar, and Stone chose to live hard and fast.
Approx. transcript time · 00:36:41Read transcript
Stone should have been nominated and maybe should have won for the screenplay, because Wall Street is the 1987 movie people still watch.
Approx. transcript time · 00:38:29Read transcript
Budget of $16.5 million; it made 41 million.
Approx. transcript time · 00:39:06Read transcript
In the Daryl Hannah discussion, deleted scenes found on YouTube are described: an earlier club scene where she rebuffs Bud (a weird cut) and a cut ending where she hugs him on the courthouse steps (a good cut); a Fortune magazine cover on a newsstand near the end was missed by one participant.
Approx. transcript time · 01:06:50Read transcript
Two more quotes not covered earlier are added: never knowing how poor you were until you made a little money, and wasps loving animals but hating people.
Approx. transcript time · 01:39:46Read transcript
The movie is recommended as still entertaining and available on Amazon Prime; one participant reverses a no and asks to join the JFK episode.
Approx. transcript time · 01:39:59Read transcript
The closing points to the Book of Basketball podcast about Julius Irving and says Billions will eventually be back.
Approx. transcript time · 01:40:48Read transcript