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The Rewatchables ·

The Natural

year 1984decade 80sdirector Barry Levinsongenre Sportsgenre Drama
host Bill Simmonshost Mallory Rubin
All 15 categories

Most Rewatchable Scene · 31:04

The walk-off home run

Hobbs versus the Whammer is fantastic; Joe Don Baker is the best Hollywood Babe Ruth, with the size, nose, gut and swagger, compared favorably to John Goodman; the scene dates to 1923, Ruth's 14-WAR MVP season, and both hosts prefer the Whammer as a cover rather than naming Babe Ruth, partly because a lefty would have been needed.

The foul tip taking out Duval (as transcribed), or rather the poor old catcher, with nobody wearing masks is noted, and Duval backing up twenty paces, to the Whammer's protest about how he will call it from there, is a classic moment.

The film

The Natural (1984)

Directed by Barry Levinson · Sports

138 minutes

IMDb
Cast

Selected cast credits · Film reference

Robert Redford Roy Hobbs
Robert Redford Roy Hobbs Paul Sullivan Jr. as Young Roy Hobbs
Robert Duvall Max Mercy
Glenn Close Iris Gaines
Kim Basinger Memo Paris
Wilford Brimley Populus "Pop" Fisher
Barbara Hershey Harriet Bird
Robert Prosky The Judge
Richard Farnsworth "Red" Blow
Joe Don Baker "The Whammer"
Michael Madsen Bartholomew "Bump" Bailey
John Finnegan Sam Simpson
Jon Van Ness John Olsen

Everything from the episode

In the order the hosts got to it. Open a row for the discussion.

31:04

Most Rewatchable Scene

The walk-off home run; Hobbs showing up for the final game while Brimley shaves

The walk-off home run; Hobbs showing up for the final game while Brimley shaves

In the discussion (10)
Approx. transcript time · 00:31:04Read transcript
  • Hobbs versus the Whammer is fantastic; Joe Don Baker is the best Hollywood Babe Ruth, with the size, nose, gut and swagger, compared favorably to John Goodman; the scene dates to 1923, Ruth's 14-WAR MVP season, and both hosts prefer the Whammer as a cover rather than naming Babe Ruth, partly because a lefty would have been needed.
  • The foul tip taking out Duval (as transcribed), or rather the poor old catcher, with nobody wearing masks is noted, and Duval backing up twenty paces, to the Whammer's protest about how he will call it from there, is a classic moment.
  • Hobbs' first batting practice, with the Wonderboy clip played, is wonderful for three reasons: the sheer spectacle like Josh Hamilton in a home run derby, Brimley guzzling the filthy water he had complained about, and the 'I've been here every day' line that shows Roy is kind of a dick, entitled and owed something; Redford's swing was modeled on Ted Williams per the Roger Angel New Yorker piece (as transcribed), and he and Costner both looked like ballplayers.
  • Roy storming out of the meeting, deflowering Iris and immediately falling for the bad-luck niece after Pop's warning, then slumping, shows poor judgment with women and no understanding of birth control, which is excused as 1923.
  • Third on one list is Hobbs' first at bat, tearing the cover off the ball as the rain comes at the perfect time; the 'is this team alive' exchange between Red and Pop captures the rhythms of a baseball season when a team gets hot; Roy's batting-practice pitch and Max Mercy sprinting from his seat raise whether he could still pitch with the bullet in his side, answered with pain tolerance and no Toradol.
  • Other nominees: the lady in white scene with Glenn Close standing up, Hobbs' homer breaking the Wrigley Field clock, which did not exist until two years later, Brimley crossing Hobbs out of the lineup, Roy's last at bat, and the lightning bolt splitting the tree to forge Wonderboy, with the glowing stump called good special effects for 1984.
  • The 'losing is a disease' speech, comparing losing to syphilis and the bubonic plague, is hilarious, and the newspaper headline montages are praised for propelling the pace like Twitter or push notifications, though that is ruled to belong in what's aged the best.
  • One pick is the walk-off homer, the greatest chill scene of any sports movie, except perhaps Rocky getting up in the 14th round of Rocky 1; everything leading up to it, breaking Wonder Boy and 'pick me a winner, Bobby' with the Savoy special, is iconic.
  • The other pick, after 35 years of watching, is Hobbs showing up for the final game while Brimley shaves, with the 'suit up' clip played twice; a dad who calls whenever it is on to quote 'you're the best damn hitter I ever saw' is recalled.
  • Wilford Brimley's chest hair in that scene, and every scene, is like a forest, a peninsula, a platypus bill, a pelt; the hosts wonder how he does not trim it, whether it is a masculine calling card and whether he is still alive at 84.
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45:11

What’s Aged the Best?

Red and Pop (Farnsworth and Brimley), or the Randy Newman score

Red and Pop (Farnsworth and Brimley), or the Randy Newman score

In the discussion (10)
Approx. transcript time · 00:45:11Read transcript
  • The incredible cast: three Oscar winners in Redford, Duvall and Basinger, nominees Glenn Close, Barbara Hershey and Richard Farnsworth, plus Robert Prosky, Michael Madsen and Joe Don Baker; Madsen was never one host's thing, though a college friend stuck by him through his problems and still mourns Bump.
  • Basinger is in the final eight of a most-beautiful-woman-in-a-movie bracket, and her constant lip licking raises whether it is deliberate or just her essence; Diane Lane in Unfaithful is a similar case.
  • Brimley and Farnsworth as Pop and Red are perfect and some of the best stuff in the movie; it is sobering that Brimley was the same age as one host is now yet seems 78, and only about two years older than Redford in real life.
  • Hobbs played semi-pro ball for the Hebrew Oilers, prompting a hunt for t-shirts on Cafe Press or Redbubble; the Randy Newman score was Oscar-nominated, is instantly associated with the film, and gets yanked for NBA and World Series montages.
  • Basinger is named again, with a nod to Alec Baldwin and their handsome couple; Max Mercy, who never played sports but makes it more fun to watch, is a model for sports media, and the hosts imagine him resisting digital media at the New York Daily News, still drawing cartoons, before being wooed by Sirius for Mad Dog Radio or a podcast.
  • John Rhodes, the Pittsburgh lefty who is a Roy Hobbs spitting image with a good throwing motion, is great casting, and the slow-motion shot of the guys flying out of the dugout after the homer is an all-time favorite.
  • Roy Hobbs is a three-true-outcomes player for the modern era, homering, striking out or walking, like 2003 Bonds or a nine-WAR player with a 184 wRC+, though his defensive value would be poor since he is slow and unwieldy and his side hurts every time he reaches for a ball.
  • The old-school baseball fashion and aesthetics, especially the Cubs uniforms, have aged wonderfully, even though the heavy fire-retardant uniforms look as warm as wildling furs.
  • Iris as an independent spirit and trailblazing feminist: Roy gets her pregnant in the barn, proposes romantic bullshit and never returns, and she raises the boy alone in Chicago with a nice apartment, a job and a drugstore where they know her name, can get an usher to deliver a note, and still gets the guy at the end.
  • The final pick is Red and Pop, with a wish for 30 minutes of deleted dugout ad-libs or a mic'd-up game, or else the iconic score.
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55:17

What’s Aged the Worst?

Robert Redford's age playing the teenage Roy Hobbs in the first 20 minutes

Robert Redford's age playing the teenage Roy Hobbs in the first 20 minutes

In the discussion (8)
Approx. transcript time · 00:55:17Read transcript
  • Redford should not be in the first 20 minutes: he and Glenn Close are 20 years older than their characters, the weird lighting does not hide it, the train shots of young and older Roy look identical, and the Pittsburgh lefty or the boy who plays his son could have been 18-year-old Roy.
  • Nothing is worse than someone who cannot throw in a baseball movie: Roy's son is in the finals with Costner's dad in Field of Dreams for worst throwing motion, Tim Robbins gets a half pass for a torn rotator cuff, and the kid carries his glove around the living room yet cannot throw or catch.
  • Bump Bailey dying by running through a wall is ludicrous, recalling Fred Lynn hitting the Fenway wall in the 1975 World Series before padding went up; the death is explained by the Greek mythology and the need to remove him from Memo, plays 100% comedic with the ashes scattering, and Roy shows no emotional response.
  • Women are either destroyers or saviors, like the current Damien Chazelle experience; the Iris and Hobbs scenes are awkward and stilted with little chemistry, while he has more chemistry with Memo, with whom he has sex in a glass phone booth in a hotel lobby.
  • The stretch from the poisoning to 'suit up' is about 20 minutes of maternity ward with no mystery that Roy will play, like the hospital flaw in Rocky 2; it could be done in 10 minutes.
  • Nobody can figure out who Roy is without baseball reference or the internet, even though he was in an attempted murder and suicide with three other murders and Max, who prides himself on encyclopedic knowledge, literally met him; the same actor playing both ages makes it worse.
  • Ballpark security letting the note through, the ball and strike calls with no pitch framing, and the complete lack of diversity, set before Jackie Robinson, are also raised; one host asks why the 1984 film had to be set in 1939 rather than moved forward, the other likes the railroads and the Shoeless Joe hangover.
  • The final pick is how old Robert Redford is, with the son's throwing motion a good second, and the other host agrees Redford is too old for the first 20 minutes.
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1:04:19

The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance

Darren McGavin as Gus Sands

Darren McGavin as Gus Sands

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:04:19Read transcript
  • Madsen is wanted but not getting it; Bobby the Batboy is the first pick.
  • Gus, played by the uncredited Darren McGavin, is going for it every time, and both hosts agree Gus is the better choice, partly because it leads into internet research; he was also a candidate for the Saul Rubinick overacting award (as transcribed).
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1:15:17

Apex Mountain

No affirmative selection

No affirmative selection

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 01:15:17Read transcript
  • Redford, Glenn Close and Duval (as transcribed) are all no, and it might be no one; Darren McGavin might have been at his apex here if he had been credited.
  • A small case for Kim Basinger is rejected since LA Confidential, where she was nominated and the hosts are unsure whether she won, came at the tail end of her career, although this film moved her career to the next level.
  • A case is made for Brimley, which would stab Chris Ryan through the heart given The Firm; the hosts settle jokingly on his chest hair being an Apex Mountain.
  • Screenwriter Roger Towne is floated and met with 'didn't do much else', drawing only a 'sure, that was the best I could do'; Batboy Bobby is floated as a joke; Levinson's apex is Rain Man or Diner, and Redford's was judged All the President's Men in that earlier episode, though he won a directing Oscar for Ordinary People.
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1:17:43

The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award

Darren McGavin

Darren McGavin

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:17:43Read transcript
  • Darren McGavin, already discussed, is one of those guys: very recognizable, though one host never knew his name, which is his own fault for going uncredited.
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1:17:43

The Ruffalo / Hanna / Rubinek / Partridge Overacting Award

Kim Basinger

Kim Basinger

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:17:43Read transcript
  • Madsen is one host's first instinct: over the top, with no clear character, and kind of a dumbass.
  • A case can be made for literally everyone in the movie, but especially Kim Basinger as Memo, deliberately over the top since the character went to Hollywood to be a starlet and performs for whoever she is with, raising whether Gus, Roy or anyone sees her true self; Prosky as the judge, with the lamp going on, is also loved.
  • Basinger is agreed as a good one, with bad acting in the scene where she tries to shoot Roy, and both hosts land on her.
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1:28:45

Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake

Yes, but as a basketball series, perhaps set in the late 1960s, rather than baseball

Yes, but as a basketball series, perhaps set in the late 1960s, rather than baseball

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:28:45Read transcript
  • Normally the answer is no, but a 2019 version could be a really interesting show; baseball may no longer be the right sport since basketball is now the American pastime because of its diversity, and the recent baseball show Pitch was canceled.
  • The internet ruins the premise, since Roy's old tweets or Foursquare check-ins would surface, so the fix is basketball set in the late 60s, a high school prodigy shot in 1953 who returns in 1969; the identity mystery, the Max Mercy angle and the team's background could add layers.
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1:45:30

Who Won the Movie?

Robert Redford

Robert Redford

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:45:30Read transcript
  • Robert Redford is named and agreed to immediately, with only Brimley's chest hair as an alternative; a case is made for Pop as the heart of the film, the maimed Fisher King whose Holy Grail Roy pursues as Percival, finally getting the win with help, a reminder that you cannot do it on your own.
  • Pop gives a lot, and Red is iconic but probably not in it enough to win.
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