Film credit
Sylvester Stallone
Also referred to as Sly Stallone, Stallone, Slash the Lone, Sly
Stats
- Episodes featuring their films
- 14
- Movies in this archive
- 16
Rewatchables episodes featuring Sylvester Stallone’s films
Creed
2015 film
Bill Simmons · Wesley Morris · Sean Fennessey · K. Austin Collins
Aired March 14, 2018
Mentioned in discussions
What’s Aged the Worst?
Pelé's bald patch; retitling to Victory; Ipswich Town's decline; Michael Caine's soccer; Stallone's goalkeeping; no scrimmage scene; Pelé celebrating with broken ribs; Hatch's Paris subplot; Russell Osman's unsold kit
In the discussion (12)
- Pele's bald patch looked almost like a toupee; the other host had not noticed it. — Bill Simmons
- Changing the title from Escape to Victory to just Victory. — Bill Simmons
- Everyone being impressed by Pele's juggling is raised, but countered that in the 1940s it would have been mind-blowing. — Bill Simmons
- Ipswich Town kind of peaked here and has fallen on hard times. — Bill Simmons
- Michael Caine the soccer player: per the internet, leg issues meant a stunt player, Kevin Beattie, did his running scenes, and Ardiles reportedly called him awful and unable to run 20 yards. — Bill Simmons
- Stallone's goalkeeping is tough and his team role fluid; the counter is that the film never claims he is good, though holding off the Germans and saving a penalty from a top player is highly unlikely. — Chris Ryan
- There is no good scrimmage or practice scene, while 13 minutes go to Sly and the French woman; the film gets to know only Caine, Stallone and the colonel, unlike The Dirty Dozen or The Great Escape. — Bill Simmons
- John Wark reportedly said Stallone wanted to score the winning goal; a corner-kick version was tried, and the penalty save took six rehearsal takes. — Bill Simmons
- Pele jumping in to celebrate with seven broken ribs. — Bill Simmons
- The German goalie tried to save the bicycle kick for realism, and no wide shot of the actual kick could be filmed. — Bill Simmons
- Hatch's escape and Paris sojourn could be cut entirely; it seems added to introduce a female character, and his capture is never shown, though his shower escape from camp is liked. — Bill Simmons
- Russell Osmond reportedly kept his whole kit, a signed ball and a director's chair; they should go up for internet auction. — Bill Simmons
In the discussion (14)
- The music: Bill Conti is the goat, and this may be the number one sports-movie score, with dire, comeback, celebration and evil themes. — Bill Simmons
- The crowd singing what is believed to be the French national anthem before the penalty gives goosebumps; one sings along without knowing the language. — Bill Simmons
- The crooked referee is in the bag for the Nazis; the Allies play down a man for about 70 minutes and still tie. — Bill Simmons
- Widescreen and HD reinvented the movie; it is a top-five thank-God-for-HD film. — Bill Simmons
- The team calls itself Prisoner FC, noticed on about the 57th screening; someone should make the jerseys. — Bill Simmons
- Pele's scissor kick on Sly in practice is amazing, and his final goal resembles a Champions League scissor-kick goal against Leverkusen. — Chris Ryan
- POW camps are always a killer premise, especially British officers who have domesticated the camp with sweaters, pipes and gardening, like Colonel Waldron. — Chris Ryan
- The closing credits listing each player's country helped a pre-internet viewer learn who the players were. — Bill Simmons
- The good Nazi who just loves soccer is pulled off, though if so, why not manage the team, resign, or escape with them. — Bill Simmons
- The announcer is really good. — Chris Ryan
- Beating Nazis at anything, whether recovering archaeological finds, art or diamonds. — Chris Ryan
- Stallone ends the Cold War and beats the Nazis in two sports movies within five years. — Bill Simmons
- Conti's score is seconded, and the soccer moves feel like 2021 rather than 1943. — Bill Simmons
- Pele: Victory is his testament and legacy, bicycle kick and all. — Bill Simmons
Most Rewatchable Scene
Pelé's injury through the first Allies goal
In the discussion (13)
- The ending will win, but a couple of picks from the first 90 minutes are included. — Bill Simmons
- The first von Steiner and Colby scenes are liked: the cat-and-mouse while Steiner watches the soccer, "Can I have my ball back," and the negotiation proposing a friendly match. — Bill Simmons
- Colby objects not on moral grounds but over boots and resources, prioritizing beer and shirts for the players while other prisoners stay caged. — Chris Ryan
- The first big training sequence leads to Pele grabbing the chalk; any time Pele gets to cook, the film is great. — Bill Simmons
- Pele's character being from Trinidad is presumably a wartime workaround, even though Stallone's character is in the Canadian Air Force. — Bill Simmons
- No other pick until the last 30 minutes, which hold five of eight picks. — Bill Simmons
- Pele gets demolished with apparent broken ribs, turns back while walking off to the music, and that leads to the cross, Stallone kicked in the face, and the blurry counterattack; that minute is put up against any minute in a sports movie and named the pick. — Bill Simmons
- The famous tunnel scene is floated as a possible pick: Hatch urging escape, the Scottish player insisting "we can win this," and Pele's speech. — Bill Simmons
- The next two Allies goals are praised; a team down to 10 men scoring unanswered goals never happens, with a disallowed fifth joked about as German VAR. — Chris Ryan
- Pele returns holding his ribs to set up the bicycle kick, and the good Nazi stands up to applaud it. — Bill Simmons
- The penalty stop and crowd-rush escape are loved, though the Germans would surely have opened fire and hundreds would not escape. — Bill Simmons
- Final pick: Pele getting hurt through the first Allies goal is the favorite minute of the movie. — Chris Ryan
- The other pick goes with that, calling the Ardiles goal the favorite goal, with the comeback culminating in Caine walking into the halftime locker room, where one player has a compound fracture and Pele cannot breathe. — Bill Simmons
Casting What-Ifs
OJ Simpson, Schwarzenegger, Stallone, Gibson, Selleck, Sting, and several Sarah Connor candidates form the casting what-if tree.
In the discussion (4)
- Orion executive Mike Medavoy proposed OJ Simpson as the Terminator and Arnold as Kyle Reese; Cameron rejected Simpson as too likable at the time and the pursuit image as racially wrong. — Bill Simmons
- Sylvester Stallone and Mel Gibson reportedly declined the Terminator, while Tom Selleck was considered because the machine was originally imagined as an ordinary man able to blend in. — Bill Simmons
- Sting is the one Kyle Reese alternative treated as credible and exciting, though Michael Biehn is defended. — Bill Simmons
- Lea Thompson, Geena Davis, Rosanna Arquette, Madonna, and Jennifer Jason Leigh are discussed for Sarah; Rosanna Arquette is the panel’s favorite alternate, while Hamilton remains perfect. — Bill Simmons
In the discussion (2)
- Stallone by a landslide; it eventually made him about a billion dollars and started an 11-year battle with Schwarzenegger. — Bill Simmons
- The star-power belt passes among Stallone, Schwarzenegger, Eddie and Tom Cruise through the 1980s and early 1990s. — Bill Simmons
Podcast choices
Apex Mountain
Richard Crenna; David Morrell; Vietnam action movies; hunting knives; early-'80s movie graphics; exploding ammo
In the discussion (9)
- Stallone is not yet at Apex; 1985, with Rambo II and Rocky IV, was his apex. — Bill Simmons
- Dennehy, the number-two star of a major hit, is a case that can be made either way. — Bill Simmons
- Crenna definitely, since he kept playing Troutman in sequels and a parody. — Bill Simmons
- David Morel too, since all his books became bestsellers afterward. — Brian Koppelman
- Crenna's many TV movies and the high-difficulty exposition role he made look easy are discussed. — Brian Koppelman
- Vietnam action movies are accepted, and hunting knives are called a great call. — Brian Koppelman
- Early-'80s movie graphics and opening credits are added. — Bill Simmons
- The deleted-scene Pet of the Month model could maybe go in too, said hesitantly. — Bill Simmons
- Exploding ammo is the last addition. — Bill Simmons
Half-Assed Internet Research
Knife and Blade magazine; real canvas coat; broken nose on set; stuntman injury; Frankenstein comparison; salary; Dennehy's Vietnam claims; deleted flashback scene
In the discussion (8)
- Knife fans love the film; a 2011 Blade magazine article credited Rambo with revitalizing the cutlery industry, and the knife was picked out with great care. — Bill Simmons
- The canvas for Rambo's coat was real rotten canvas found by the crew; Stallone still has it. — Bill Simmons
- Stallone broke Lester's actor's nose in the jail escape, so the bandage later is real. — Bill Simmons
- The stuntman doubling Teasle broke his back when the first take of the car jump went too high. — Bill Simmons
- In the DVD commentary Stallone compares Rambo to Frankenstein's monster, with Troutman as the doctor. — Bill Simmons
- Stallone asked for $3.5 million; Kassar and Vajna gave him $2 million plus TV sales. — Bill Simmons
- Dennehy implied he served in Vietnam but finished his Marines service before U.S. forces deployed. — Bill Simmons
- A deleted flashback with a Pet of the Month model is on the special-edition DVD; deleted scenes are usually cut for a reason. — Bill Simmons
In the discussion (2)
- Stallone dials it up in the final monologue. — Bill Simmons
- Caruso is the other nominee, playing it far less cool than in his later TV roles; Stallone earned his explosion after staying quiet all movie. Each host keeps his nominee. — Brian Koppelman
What’s Aged the Worst?
Trautman–Teasle bar scene; unused Korea–Vietnam veteran tension; Dan Hill's end song "It's a Long Road"
In the discussion (10)
- Research: the first rough cut ran over three hours, Stallone wanted to buy and destroy it, and it was recut to 93 minutes. — Bill Simmons
- The 93-minute cut is fine, though ten more minutes in the woods would be welcome. — Brian Koppelman
- The cuts show, as when Teasle is told the deputies were rough on Rambo and a state cop just says "those assholes." — Brian Koppelman
- The Troutman–Teasle drink at the bar feels forced. — Bill Simmons
- The long version probably had Teasle's war service; the book's Korea-versus-Vietnam veteran tension was an easy thing the film did not use. — Bill Simmons
- Counterpoint: the bar scene is loved for putting the two actors together. — Brian Koppelman
- There are almost no women and the one woman is also the only person of color, raised explicitly as an interesting point rather than an aged-worst pick. — Brian Koppelman
- The number-one aged-worst pick is the Dan Hill end song "It's a Long Road," which is played on air. — Bill Simmons
- Dan Hill, of "Sometimes When We Touch," is defended; the other side wishes for a band like Foreigner. — Bill Simmons
- Partial concession: there is no reason an American movie should have a Canadian singing the end song. — Brian Koppelman
Most Rewatchable Scene
Jail escape to the cliff; Trautman's entrance
In the discussion (16)
- The jail escape is the first pick; a son watching found the first ten minutes slow until the shaving scene, when Rambo cleans house. — Bill Simmons
- Taking the motorcycle, including Stallone's little happy-feet dance compared to Jared Goff, is the greatest part. — Bill Simmons
- Per the research, the bike-and-car jump over a bump went too high on the first take and the stunt driver hurt his back. — Bill Simmons
- Stallone's wordless actor instincts in the sequence bond the audience to Rambo; Stallone is called underrated, and Caruso helps. — Brian Koppelman
- From the arrest to the motorcycle is as good as action filmmaking gets; the stretch from the shaving to the cliff runs about 30 minutes. — Bill Simmons
- Stallone took real punishment, as when Ernie Shavers sent him to the hospital. — Bill Simmons
- The cliff scene: Art threatens Rambo from the helicopter, Rambo jumps into the tree; Stallone did the bottom third of the fall himself and broke a rib. — Bill Simmons
- The jump has been ripped off for 40 years; unlike Butch and Sundance, Stallone looks like a war machine hanging from the cliff. — Brian Koppelman
- The perfectly timed rock hitting the helicopter glass is compared to a throw from deep left field. — Bill Simmons
- The night hunt, with the "We ain't hunting him, he's hunting us" line, has Rambo taking out the deputies one by one. — Bill Simmons
- Troutman's first scene ("God didn't build Rambo. I made him") and Teasle's disgust are another pick. — Bill Simmons
- The rats play better on a theater screen; Stallone reportedly got bitten and needed a tetanus shot. — Bill Simmons
- Rambo taking the Jeep ("That's how accidents happen") and blowing up the gas station are two more rewatchable moments. — Bill Simmons
- The "Nothing is over" ending is shockingly good acting, but it is flagged as not rewatchable because it is so emotional. — Bill Simmons
- The final pick is the jail escape through the cliff, about a 30-minute stretch; kept to one scene it is jail to motorcycle, with Troutman's entrance also named. — Bill Simmons
- Crenna is praised along with The Flamingo Kid; someone else reportedly had the Troutman part until the day before. — Bill Simmons
In the discussion (5)
- Reviews were mixed and lukewarm, but Roger Ebert was not lukewarm: three stars. — Bill Simmons
- Ebert did not like the ending but said Stallone wrote a very good, well-paced movie, well acted by Stallone, Crenna and Dennehy. — Bill Simmons
- Ebert also wrote that almost all of the film is implausible but audiences buy it because it is Stallone on screen. — Bill Simmons
- The hosts disagree that it is implausible and think it could have happened, apart from the neatly contained explosions. — Brian Koppelman
- Stallone's physicality makes the cliff fall believable, which is offered as what Ebert was getting at. — Brian Koppelman
Casting What-Ifs
Burt Reynolds was attached to an earlier version; Liman later approached Brad Pitt, Russell Crowe, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Tom Cruise, Sylvester Stallone, and Sarah Polley before the final casting.
This discussion recalls a choice from an earlier episode.
In the discussion (10)
- Universal planned a 1983 version starring Bert Reynolds, but schedule conflicts stalled it. — Chris Ryan
- Doug Liman pursued Brad Pitt, who chose Spy Game instead. — Chris Ryan
- The panel calls Pitt's decision a missed franchise opportunity while acknowledging that his later life and career worked out. — Chris Ryan
- Russell Crowe was approached after Gladiator. — Chris Ryan
- The panel prefers Damon's everyman quality to Crowe's post-Gladiator superhero stature for Bourne. — Chris Ryan
- Arnold Schwarzenegger was approached. — Chris Ryan
- The panel finds Schwarzenegger hard to imagine in the role because of his age. — Chris Ryan
- Tom Cruise declined because he already played Ethan Hunt. — Chris Ryan
- Sylvester Stallone was reportedly considered because the book version of Bourne is older. — Chris Ryan
- Sarah Polley was Liman's preferred female lead, but her career choices favored smaller work and directing over a-list fame. — Chris Ryan


