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The Rewatchables ·

Den of Thieves

year 2018decade 10sdirector Christian Gudegastgenre Crimegenre Action
host Bill Simmonshost Chris Ryanhost Van Lathan format Live recordingformat Repeat visitformat Director in audience
All 36 categories

The Stephen A. Smith Hottest Take Award · 58:59

Keep Ray alive for a sequel

Chris Ryan: Proposes keeping Ray alive so that Nick could recruit him from prison to catch Donnie in a sequel, arguing that Pablo makes the character valuable to retain.

Van Lathan: A response defends Ray's death as revealing that the apparent predator was prey; Nick and Donnie remain the physical and intellectual predators. The proposed prison-recruitment sequel is nevertheless praised.

The film

Den of Thieves (2018)

Directed by Christian Gudegast · Crime

IMDb Letterboxd Find on JustWatch Rotten Tomatoes
Cast

Selected cast credits · Film reference

Gerard Butler Nick O’Brien
Pablo Schreiber Ray Merrimen
O’Shea Jackson Jr. Donnie Wilson
50 Cent Enson Levoux
Maurice Compte Benny Borracho Magalon
Brian Van Holt Murph Connors
Evan Jones Bo Bosco Ostroman
Mo McRae Gus Henderson
Kaiwi Lyman-Mersereau Tony Zapata
Dawn Olivieri Debbie O’Brien
Eric Braeden Ziggy Zerhusen
Lewis Tan Federal Reserve Police Lobby Guard #1
Jermaine Rivers Officer Jackson
Jay Dobyns Rolph Wolfgang
Alix Lapri Maloa
Nick Loeb Rudd

Everything from the episode

In the order the hosts got to it. Open a row for the discussion.

19:01

Recasting Couch

Ali Larter; young Nick prequel; keep existing cast

Ali Larter; young Nick prequel; keep existing cast

In the discussion (12)
Approx. transcript time · 00:19:01Read transcript
  • Recasting: Ali Larter's Landman character as Big Nick's ex-wife, with a joke that she would respond less gracefully and might stab him. — Chris Ryan
  • A prequel about young Nick's football years and entry into Los Angeles policing is proposed after discussing Timothée Chalamet's next role. — Bill Simmons
  • An earlier proposal would give Butler a funny sidekick played by Dave Chappelle. — Chris Ryan
  • The Chappelle idea receives immediate objections; the proposer ultimately says he was wrong despite imagining gun training and jokes at Nick’s expense. — Chris Ryan
  • The existing cast is ultimately retained. — Bill Simmons
  • A funnier Bosco is proposed, with Flea invoked as a model for someone who could mock Nick. — Chris Ryan
  • Shane Gillis as Murph is offered as another example of a cop who could supply a few jokes about Nick.
  • Nicolas Cage would have suited Big Nick in the mid-to-late 2000s but has aged out of that version. — Chris Ryan
  • Pedro Pascal is a contemporary Big Nick possibility, with physical credibility and apparent behavioral authenticity important to the role. — Chris Ryan
  • An unspecified Wagner is another possibility; the transcript does not establish a surname. — Chris Ryan
  • Ben Affleck is proposed for a mid-to-late-2000s version. — Chris Ryan
  • Liev Schreiber as Big Nick would create a brother-against-brother pairing with Pablo; the audience groans at the idea.
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27:01

Most Rewatchable Scene

Benihana; final 66 minutes; Nick crashes his wife’s date

Benihana; final 66 minutes; Nick crashes his wife’s date

In the discussion (17)
Approx. transcript time · 00:27:01Read transcript
  • The opening donut-store robbery establishes an eerie, empty Los Angeles atmosphere late at night. — Chris Ryan
  • The opening robbery establishes military training, theft of the truck rather than its contents, and escalation to killing police. A guard reaching for coffee becomes a fatal mistake. — Van Lathan
  • Nick’s crime-scene entrance combines eating a donut, apparently avoiding its blood, with quick deductions about the getaway and cigarette and vegan insults. His sleepless appearance contrasts with his investigative ability. — Chris Ryan
  • The driving flashback introducing Donnie to the crew remains understandable despite the chronology. Mirrored briefings and the later explanation of Donnie’s information connect the police and robbers. — Chris Ryan
  • The untraceable shredded-currency premise is accepted despite its elaborate mechanics and the easier alternative of an ordinary bank robbery. Comparisons with Heat and Fast Five lead to a wish for simpler Fast franchise heists.
  • The prom-date intimidation scene is praised for 50 Cent, the assembled garage crew, and the return deadline. A participant imagines Ringer film enthusiasts intimidating his own daughter’s date.
  • Benihana is a favorite scene for Nick’s crude restaurant insults, high-school rivalry, Samoan and Spam taunts, and Merrimen’s demand to respect family. The hosts initially acknowledge uncertainty about whether the restaurant is literally Benihana.
  • The hosts speculate about the football positions Merrimen and Nick could have played, with Merrimen’s leadership questioned as a quarterback. Long Beach Poly’s stronger program complicates Nick’s boasting. — Bill Simmons
  • Nick's boast about beating Long Beach Poly is questioned because of that program's strength and Antonio Pierce's coaching connection; the Benihana confrontation nearly becomes a fight before Nick leaves. — Chris Ryan
  • Donnie's apparent impending murder in the tent, with acid and protective equipment, is compared with the realization of danger in Goodfellas, Lethal Weapon 2, and Speed. — Chris Ryan
  • The gun-range confrontation shows Nick impressed by Merrimen's shooting and establishes mutual admiration alongside recognition of danger.
  • The fake Pico Savings robbery is a rewatchable swerve, using the familiar claim that the robbers want the bank’s money rather than the customers’ money. — Chris Ryan
  • Donnie emerging from the cash container and stealing the money while the cameras are off is praised as especially tense. — Chris Ryan
  • The hosts mock the women eating Chinese food that has spent several days in an air duct.
  • One participant favors the final 66 minutes, beginning with Nick leaving the playground, while distinguishing the emotional appeal of Benihana from the technical achievement of the corridor shootout. — Bill Simmons
  • Nick crashing his wife’s date to sign divorce papers is nominated for his taking food and drinks, claiming ownership, and invoking his own police status. — Van Lathan
  • The date’s humiliation is debated: one response says he must stand up to Nick to preserve the relationship, while another says he cannot recover. — Van Lathan
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46:18

The most 2018 thing

Showtime and cable second life

Showtime and cable second life

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 00:46:18Read transcript
  • Smoking in Los Angeles bars is proposed as Most2018, then challenged because it was already prohibited. — Chris Ryan
  • The Showtime and cable second life is the strongest choice, with easy entry into different sections helping the film grow. — Chris Ryan
  • Strippers without BBLs are another Most2018 choice.
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47:13

What’s Aged the Best?

Donnie reveal; alpha confrontations; genre details; opening title card

Donnie reveal; alpha confrontations; genre details; opening title card

In the discussion (13)
Approx. transcript time · 00:47:13Read transcript
  • Donnie's reveal ages well because rewatching explains why Merrimen retains an apparently compromised driver: Donnie is essential to the plan.
  • Donnie's description of bartending as controlling an environment without people noticing foreshadows his role; One participant connects bartenders' access to information with his own experience. — Chris Ryan
  • The men hanging out at the suit store is praised. — Chris Ryan
  • The silent, testosterone-filled staring contests are praised, with a joke that contemporary men would be on their phones instead. — Chris Ryan
  • The invitation to hug and save a fortune in therapy is a praised one-liner. — Chris Ryan
  • Appearances by actual UFC fighters Max Holloway and Michael Bisping are praised. — Chris Ryan
  • Butler’s leather jackets are praised as matching the character’s leathery quality. — Chris Ryan
  • The police organizational board underestimates Donnie; One participant celebrates the Black mastermind reveal. The discussion compares the hierarchy imagery with The Sopranos moving Junior and Tony on its board. — Van Lathan
  • Police printing information they could simply view on a screen is a favorite detail. — Bill Simmons
  • Opening with a major crime or set piece that the film must surpass is praised, with The Dark Knight, Sicario, Drive, and The Matrix as comparisons. — Bill Simmons
  • The FBI vegan and tennis insults are praised, with pickleball proposed as a worse insult.
  • The opening bank-robbery statistics card is praised and compared with Sicario's opening definition; a Star Wars crawl alternative is dismissed as too long. — Bill Simmons
  • Shooting-range showdowns are praised for the uncertainty over whether the characters will actually shoot each other. — Chris Ryan
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52:44

The most GIFable moment

Pablo rising at Benihana

Pablo rising at Benihana

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:52:44Read transcript
  • Most GIFable: Pablo rising from his rice at Benihana to object to Nick insulting the group. — Chris Ryan
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53:07

The Great Shot Gordo Award for Most Cinematic Shot

Overhead final traffic shootout

Overhead final traffic shootout

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:53:07Read transcript
  • Most cinematic shot: the overhead view of the final traffic shootout. — Chris Ryan
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53:25

The Den of Thieves Benihana Award for Scene-Stealing Location

Benihana

Benihana

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 00:53:25Read transcript
  • Benihana is allowed to win its own namesake location award, using the Bill Russell award as an analogy. — Chris Ryan
  • Ziggy’s Hofbrau is a runner-up. — Bill Simmons
  • The menswear store is another runner-up. — Bill Simmons
  • The donut shop is another runner-up. — Bill Simmons
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53:52

The Slow Ride / Kid Cudi – Pursuit of Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop

What It’s Like — Everlast

What It’s Like — Everlast

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:53:52Read transcript
  • Needle drop: Everlast's What It's Like; the distinction between the film's score and its limited songs with lyrics is noted. — Chris Ryan
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54:21

The Big Kahuna Burger Award for Best Use of Food and Drink

Milk from the carton; bloody donuts; stolen dinner

Milk from the carton; bloody donuts; stolen dinner

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 00:54:21Read transcript
  • Drinking milk straight from the carton at six in the morning is the initial food-and-drink choice. — Chris Ryan
  • The bloody donut is another food-and-drink choice. — Chris Ryan
  • Nick taking the skirt steak at his wife’s new man’s dinner is another choice. — Chris Ryan
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54:55

The Butch’s Girlfriend Award for the Weakest Link in the Film

Police starting a shootout in stalled traffic

Police starting a shootout in stalled traffic

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:54:55Read transcript
  • Weak link: police choosing to initiate a shootout through a traffic jam with roughly fifty cars between them and the robbers. The hosts joke about endangered commuters and a subsequent class-action lawsuit. — Chris Ryan
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55:47

The Vincent Chase Award: Are We Sure This Character Is Actually Good at Their Job?

Selection unclear in transcript

Selection unclear in transcript

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:55:47Read transcript
  • A participant says there is no weak link and mentions a Vincent Chase choice, but the following ASR phrase, “which is offset,” does not establish an identifiable selection. — Chris Ryan
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56:01

What’s Aged the Worst?

School visit; diminished twist; ground donuts; Atlanta as Los Angeles

School visit; diminished twist; ground donuts; Atlanta as Los Angeles

In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 00:56:01Read transcript
  • Indoor bar smoking is an aged-worst choice. — Chris Ryan
  • Nick visiting his daughter at school is questioned; leaving him crying outside the fence is suggested. — Chris Ryan
  • The ending's surprise diminishes on repeat viewings; a proposed Ray Merrimen cut would end after the confrontation, though Donnie's reveal enables what follows. — Bill Simmons
  • Eating donuts from the ground is an aged-worst choice, with jokes about contemporary weight-loss drugs reducing their appeal.
  • Atlanta standing in for Los Angeles is an aged-worst choice attributed to budget limits. The film's many Los Angeles references partly disguise the substitution, and one participant only noticed it that day.
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57:43

The Ruffalo / Hanna / Rubinek / Partridge Overacting Award

Gerard Butler

Gerard Butler

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:57:43Read transcript
  • Overacting: Gerard Butler, whose drunkenness, hangover, crying, and sustained intensity make the film fun. — Chris Ryan
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58:19

Is There a Better Title for This Movie?

Den of Thieves

Den of Thieves

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:58:19Read transcript
  • The title Den of Thieves is retained; Robbery Capital of the World is rejected, and the hosts speculate that sequels could eventually shorten the name to Thieves. — Chris Ryan
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58:37

The Neil McCauley “A Book about Metals” Award for Best Line from the Movie

People with things to hide; I didn’t bring my cuffs

People with things to hide; I didn’t bring my cuffs

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 00:58:37Read transcript
  • The line about people with things to hide having little to say is a memorable-quote choice. — Chris Ryan
  • The exchange in which Ray refuses cuffs and Nick replies that he did not bring them is another choice. — Chris Ryan
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58:59

The Stephen A. Smith Hottest Take Award

Keep Ray alive for a sequel; welcome Heat emulation

Keep Ray alive for a sequel; welcome Heat emulation

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 00:58:59Read transcript
  • Proposes keeping Ray alive so that Nick could recruit him from prison to catch Donnie in a sequel, arguing that Pablo makes the character valuable to retain. — Chris Ryan
  • A response defends Ray's death as revealing that the apparent predator was prey; Nick and Donnie remain the physical and intellectual predators. The proposed prison-recruitment sequel is nevertheless praised. — Van Lathan
  • The hosts invent Ray's twin Rick Merrimen as a way to restore the actor for a sequel, extending the joke into football and family casting. — Van Lathan
  • The hosts defend the film's similarities to Heat, including bank heists, troubled police relationships, surveillance, major shootouts, and the cop confronting his wife's new partner; they argue that emulating a beloved film is welcome. — Chris Ryan
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1:02:12

Casting What-Ifs

None found

None found

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:02:12Read transcript
  • No casting what-ifs were found. The hosts address the director in the audience and contrast the film's short history with decades of potentially unreliable casting lore. — Chris Ryan
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1:02:41

Van Lathan Award for Did This Movie Need More Black People?

All-Black cast; Race War sequel pitch

All-Black cast; Race War sequel pitch

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:02:41Read transcript
  • Proposes an all-Black cast and a comic Race War sequel in which Black cops face white robbers still resentful of high-school football defeats; the pitch is compared with Hoosiers crossed with Heat. — Van Lathan
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1:04:04

The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award

Evan Jones

Evan Jones

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 01:04:04Read transcript
  • Evan Jones is the leading That Guy choice, recognized from this film and Shot Caller. — Chris Ryan
  • Dawn Olivieri, identified as Nick’s wife, is another That Guy candidate. — Chris Ryan
  • Meadow Williams, identified as Ray’s girlfriend, is another candidate whose name was not known. — Van Lathan
  • An unnamed Russian actor playing a truck driver is recognized from other films. — Chris Ryan
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1:04:51

The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance

Two women ordering Chinese food

Two women ordering Chinese food

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:04:51Read transcript
  • The two women ordering Chinese food are selected for their brief, forceful appearances. — Chris Ryan
  • The FBI tennis player is another candidate; most other characters appear too often to qualify. — Chris Ryan
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1:09:00

What Would Tony Romo’s Director’s Commentary for This Movie Sound Like?

Doris Burke: prom; Tony Romo: bank cameras

Doris Burke: prom; Tony Romo: bank cameras

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:09:00Read transcript
  • Director's commentary: Performs Doris Burke narrating the prom-date intimidation scene. — Chris Ryan
  • Tony Romo is proposed for Donnie's tense bank-room sequence when the cameras shut off. — Chris Ryan
  • A response notes that actual Doris Burke does not speak in monologues this long, joking about how the imitation has grown. — Chris Ryan
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1:10:08

Half-Assed Internet Research

Fifteen-year development; locations; training; banknote credits

Fifteen-year development; locations; training; banknote credits

In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 01:10:08Read transcript
  • The director reportedly began writing in 2003, making the project a fifteen-year journey. — Chris Ryan
  • Some countries released the film as Criminal Squad. — Chris Ryan
  • Ziggy's was filmed at Atlanta's Johnny's Hideaway, and the hosts discuss its connection to Sam's Hofbrau in Los Angeles. — Bill Simmons
  • A military consultant reportedly ran separate boot camps for the opposing teams. — Chris Ryan
  • The closing-credit hundred-dollar bill has a serial number referring to Den of Thieves and 2018. — Van Lathan
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1:11:58

Apex Mountain

Pablo Schreiber; three-for-three suit stores; Los Angeles Fed; school rivalry; Benihana; misdirected stripper texts; ...

Pablo Schreiber; three-for-three suit stores; Los Angeles Fed; school rivalry; Benihana; misdirected stripper texts; gearing up; Angel City Donuts; 50 Cent’s film career

In the discussion (16)
Approx. transcript time · 01:11:58Read transcript
  • Apex: Butler's second career phase is associated with this film, but 300 remains a competing first peak and receives an explicit preference; participants disagree about which has the stronger present identity.
  • Pablo Schreiber is affirmed for this film, with The Wire as the alternative.
  • The specific three-for-three suit store is an affirmative Apex choice, distinguished from all suit stores.
  • The Los Angeles Federal Reserve Bank is an affirmative Apex choice.
  • Describing things as Fort Knox is proposed without a settled affirmative choice.
  • Long Beach Poly versus South Torrance is affirmed, particularly for South Torrance. — Chris Ryan
  • Shooting ranges lose to Beverly Hills Cop II because of their greater importance to its plot. — Chris Ryan
  • Benihana is counted as an affirmative Apex choice after the hosts ask the director in the audience whether the location qualifies. — Chris Ryan
  • Accidental texts intended for a stripper but sent to a wife are an affirmative film-specific Apex choice; Tiger Woods is offered outside movies. — Chris Ryan
  • Second-generation Heat films are debated through Den of Thieves, The Town, Triple Frontier, and Widows; no final winner is established.
  • Putting on protective gear for a street gunfight after a heist is affirmed as an Apex choice.
  • O'Shea Jackson Jr. is considered against Straight Outta Compton; one participant identifies him with Donnie, while another predicts the sequel will be his peak.
  • Bad things happening in donut stores lose to Boogie Nights, with a note that Buck's experience eventually funds his stereo shop. — Chris Ryan
  • Drinking milk from the carton is compared with Anchorman. — Chris Ryan
  • Angel City Donuts itself is affirmed as an Apex choice. — Chris Ryan
  • 50 Cent is praised for fitting the ensemble and playing off Pablo without his celebrity overwhelming the character. This is affirmed as his movie Apex, distinct from the larger career peak of Get Rich or Die Tryin'. Keeping him alive for the sequel is proposed. — Van Lathan
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1:15:51

Cruise or Hanks?

Hanks as Big Nick

Hanks as Big Nick

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:15:51Read transcript
  • Hanks is proposed as Big Nick after Saving Private Ryan, drawing on the imagined influence of Tom Sizemore; the hosts picture him delivering Nick's crude lines. — Bill Simmons
  • Cruise is proposed for his ability to become an extreme character like Collateral's lead, but his height relative to Pablo inspires objections and a hypothetical shorter recast.
  • The deciding Cruise-or-Hanks vote goes to Hanks, producing a Hanks result while acknowledging Cruise's experience with similar roles.
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1:17:55

Best Race Horse Name from This Movie

Long Beach Poly as racehorse; Angel City Donuts and Ziggy’s Hofbrau alternatives

Long Beach Poly as racehorse; Angel City Donuts and Ziggy’s Hofbrau alternatives

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:17:55Read transcript
  • Names: Angel City Donuts and Ziggy's Hofbrau are offered, and Long Beach Poly is specifically chosen as a racehorse name. — Chris Ryan
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1:18:05

Picking Nits

Traffic; bank access; money weight; old food; running; hypocrisy

Traffic; bank access; money weight; old food; running; hypocrisy

In the discussion (13)
Approx. transcript time · 01:18:05Read transcript
  • Nitpick: Scottish Gerard Butler as a South Torrance football star is questioned, though his accent concealment and Bill Romanowski-like presence are defended. — Chris Ryan
  • The fourteen-mile Hawthorne-to-Wilmington ride raises a Los Angeles traffic and distance objection. — Chris Ryan
  • Donnie's failure to request a lawyer after waking in the hotel is questioned; One participant compares real interrogation videos in which suspects similarly fail to ask for counsel.
  • Merrimen’s access to so much Federal Reserve information is questioned.
  • The Chinese-food courier’s freedom to enter the Fed and roam the cafeteria is questioned; a front-desk handoff would make more sense. — Bill Simmons
  • One participant objects to Donnie silently accepting Nick's insult about his penis size, proposing embarrassed or defensive replies rather than allowing the conversation to move on. — Van Lathan
  • The hosts calculate the weight of thirty million dollars in hundred-dollar bills at roughly 661.5 pounds and question Donnie moving it so quickly in small bags; this is their cited internet calculation. — Chris Ryan
  • Donnie reconstructing ventilation plans from bar information requires accepting his exceptional intelligence.
  • A defense imagines far more accumulated conversations and incidental information over time than the brief scenes show; no duration in years is specified.
  • The Chinese food stored above the bathroom for days prompts questions about spoilage, temperature, smell, and what dishes the women could plausibly accept. — Chris Ryan
  • Merrimen's running looks too slow for his football reputation to one participant; others propose past injuries, military wounds, and heavy protective gear as possible explanations. — Chris Ryan
  • The long escape route and traffic are questioned; a closed lane is defended as quintessential Los Angeles, and the robbers expected to leave undetected. — Chris Ryan
  • Merrimen's objection to Nick's behavior is called hypocritical because he sends his girlfriend to sleep with Nick as a distraction. — Bill Simmons
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1:26:25

Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake

Sequel and prequel

Sequel and prequel

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:26:25Read transcript
  • A sequel is selected and already forthcoming; a prequel is also desired as a way to bring Merrimen back. — Chris Ryan
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1:26:36

Is This Movie Better With…?

Add Big Nick; Wayne Jenkins as divorce lawyer

Add Big Nick; Wayne Jenkins as divorce lawyer

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:26:36Read transcript
  • The hosts add Big Nick to the recurring better-with-character category in place of Philip Baker Hall, imagining his presence improving romantic comedies, horror, Marriage Story, and Selma. — Chris Ryan
  • One participant imagines Wayne Jenkins as Big Nick's divorce lawyer, berating him for not using a separate phone for strippers. — Bill Simmons
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1:27:54

Just One Oscar

Screenplay — Christian Gudegast

Screenplay — Christian Gudegast

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:27:54Read transcript
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1:28:14

Probably Unanswerable Questions

Armored-car work; Merrimen namesake; misdirected text; barbecue house

Armored-car work; Merrimen namesake; misdirected text; barbecue house

In the discussion (6)
Approx. transcript time · 01:28:14Read transcript
  • Sitting in the back of an armored truck is described as the worst assignment because of the danger. — Chris Ryan
  • The hosts ask what a moderately bad armored-truck shift would look like, between routine work and a disastrous robbery.
  • The hosts wonder why guards risk death protecting money instead of surrendering it. — Van Lathan
  • The hosts ask whether Ray Merrimen's name honors football player Shawne Merriman. — Bill Simmons
  • Improvises an excuse for Nick’s misdirected text: Borracho borrowed the phone, followed by turning the accusation back on his wife. — Van Lathan
  • The outdoor barbecue setting resembles the Boogie Nights house, but the hosts say their location research places this film in Atlanta instead. — Chris Ryan
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1:32:30

Best Double Feature

Den of Thieves 2: Pantera
Den of Thieves
Den of Thieves 2: Pantera

Picked by Chris Ryan

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:32:30Read transcript
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1:32:42

The Andy and Red – Zihuatanejo Award for What Happens the Next Day?

Den of Thieves 2: Pantera

Den of Thieves 2: Pantera

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:32:42Read transcript
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1:32:54

What Piece of Memorabilia Would You Want From This Movie?

Pablo’s vest; bloody donut; Donnie’s car

Pablo’s vest; bloody donut; Donnie’s car

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:32:54Read transcript
  • Pablo’s ammunition-laden vest is a memorabilia choice. — Chris Ryan
  • A bloody stunt donut is another choice. — Chris Ryan
  • Donnie’s car is another choice, tentatively identified as a Trans Am. — Bill Simmons
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1:33:19

The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson

Never underestimate a bartender; plan escape traffic

Never underestimate a bartender; plan escape traffic

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:33:19Read transcript
  • Never underestimate a bartender. — Chris Ryan
  • Plan a heist’s escape traffic as carefully as the bank robbery. — Chris Ryan
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1:35:08

Who Won the Movie?

Christian Gudegast; the film itself; Gudegast or Schreiber alternative

Christian Gudegast; the film itself; Gudegast or Schreiber alternative

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:35:08Read transcript
  • Christian Gudegast is the first explicit winner choice for shepherding the film through fifteen years of development; a following response agrees. — Chris Ryan
  • Another winner choice is the film itself, because its unexpected reception and sustained enthusiasm produced a sequel people want to see. — Van Lathan
  • The final winner response leaves Christian Gudegast and Pablo Schreiber as alternatives, prompting discussion of whether Schreiber could have had a defining action franchise and whether Halo filled that role. — Chris Ryan
Podcast choices
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1:37:17

Mallory Rubin Award: Did This Movie Need a Better Sex Scene?

No; right amount of sex

No; right amount of sex

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:37:17Read transcript
  • A better sex scene is rejected: the film has the right amount of sex and the hosts do not want an expanded Nick-and-stripper scene. — Chris Ryan
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More from the conversation

Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan record before a small experimental audience at Spotify’s Los Angeles office ahead of Pantera. They revisit the film covered in2019, noting Van had not yet joined the Ringer then. Lionsgate provides a promotional jacket.
Approx. transcript time · 00:02:01Read transcript
Cable exposure and word of mouth give the film a lasting audience. Van recalls discovering it through a Breakfast Club cast appearance and recommendations; Chris persuaded Bill to watch the film. Its three major stretches can be rewatched separately.
Approx. transcript time · 00:04:45Read transcript
The film repeatedly redirects expectations, especially at the house and during the bank escape. Its opening robbery statistics create excitement, though the hosts question whether those numbers are accurate.
Approx. transcript time · 00:06:52Read transcript
The discussion distinguishes crime culture and character circumstances in Heat from the heist mechanics of Ocean’s Eleven. Den of Thieves combines both and shifts sympathy between cops and robbers.
Approx. transcript time · 00:08:28Read transcript
The hosts call the film a descendant of Heat, comparing The Town, Triple Frontier, Triple 9, and The Dark Knight. The mirrored cop and robber paths, Merrimen’s code, and Donnie’s surprise role complicate the audience’s loyalties.
Approx. transcript time · 00:10:24Read transcript
The film caters to bank-robbery enthusiasts and repeatedly stages alpha confrontations at the restaurant, range, prom, and dinner date. Old high-school rivalries remain recognizable decades later.
Approx. transcript time · 00:12:46Read transcript
The hosts enjoy the cop-killers line and compete to perform it, jokingly awarding Van the best reading. The parole guard’s see-you-soon taunt is criticized.
Approx. transcript time · 00:14:09Read transcript
Genre pleasures include divorced-cop camaraderie, explaining an impregnable bank before robbing it, hostage threats, and tactics for shooting around body armor.
Approx. transcript time · 00:15:07Read transcript
Butler’s earlier action films and romantic comedies give way to a grizzled Nick, with a reported weight gain and sleepless, sweaty appearance. Nick’s stray text and milk drinking prompt jokes about the character.
Approx. transcript time · 00:16:12Read transcript
Pablo Schreiber’s height and physical presence make Merrimen imposing. The hosts praise his transformation from roles in The Wire and Orange Is the New Black and the combination of intensity with a believable code.
Approx. transcript time · 00:20:13Read transcript
Whether the crew would be fun to spend time with is disputed: their grim meals and military talk suggest otherwise, while Van cites their laughter during the prom intimidation. A response notes that threatening a teenager provides their rare laugh.
Approx. transcript time · 00:21:04Read transcript
The hosts report a thirty-million-dollar budget and eighty-five-million-dollar gross, then emphasize Showtime exposure and word of mouth. They contrast that route to an audience with the crowded streaming environment.
Approx. transcript time · 00:22:45Read transcript
For a hypothetical Miami bank robbery, Danny Ocean's crew is rejected as too soft and Neil's Heat crew receives support; the Heat character’s hypothetical online-gambling distraction is raised as a concern.
Approx. transcript time · 01:33:53Read transcript
Merrimen's crew receives support for its size and suitability to Miami. The Town's crew is proposed for Jem, then challenged because of its fate on the second robbery.
Approx. transcript time · 01:34:40Read transcript

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