The combination of Terminator, Beverly Hills Cop, Fletch, and the Lakers makes mid-1980s Los Angeles a defensible local summit.
Titanic is chosen as Cameron’s strict apex, though the cheap 1980s hotel sex scene gets a joking category peak. — Chris Ryan
The simple one-way naked time-travel rule is praised against later films’ increasingly elaborate mechanics, but the discussion stops short of a firm all-movie victory. — Chris Ryan
Top Gun beats this film for sunglasses, while Tech Noir may be the apex of Pico-area 1980s nightclubs. — Bill Simmons
An abandoned liquid-metal Terminator, the theatrical pitch, minimal Arnold dialogue, performance preparation, studio notes, Cameron’s rights loss, and the death count
An early outline had a second, liquid-metal Terminator that available effects could not realize; Cameron saved the concept for Terminator 2. — Bill Simmons
Lance Henriksen reportedly arrived at the pitch in Terminator costume and makeup to demonstrate the threat. — Bill Simmons
Biehn studied Polish resistance fighters, while Hamilton filmed running scenes on a badly injured ankle. — Bill Simmons
The studio suggested a K-9 android for Reese, which Cameron rejected, and asked for more Sarah/Reese romance, which produced the hotel scene. — Bill Simmons
Arnold trained with guns daily for a month and received praise for realistic weapon handling. — Bill Simmons
Cameron sold away rights early, missed royalties from several sequels, and later described the loss as the price of a Hollywood education before copyright reverted. — Bill Simmons
Cameron voices the answering-machine date cancellation, and the estimated body count varies from 39 to 42 depending on Tech Noir. — Bill Simmons
Orion executive Mike Medavoy proposed OJ Simpson as the Terminator and Arnold as Kyle Reese; Cameron rejected Simpson as too likable at the time and the pursuit image as racially wrong. — Bill Simmons
Sylvester Stallone and Mel Gibson reportedly declined the Terminator, while Tom Selleck was considered because the machine was originally imagined as an ordinary man able to blend in. — Bill Simmons
Sting is the one Kyle Reese alternative treated as credible and exciting, though Michael Biehn is defended. — Bill Simmons
Future-war effects, dated chronology and hair, exposed nudity, a personal scooter association, the Harlan Ellison dispute, Ginger’s food and pet choices, and John Connor’s weak message
The red future lasers and stop-motion endoskeleton look dated, although the handmade work remains charming and the machine-dominated future feels newly plausible.
The once-distant 2029 setting is now close, intensifying jokes about missing lasers and walking robots.
Sarah’s heavily sprayed hair is criticized while her later Mexico headband reveals a more timeless look; Arnold’s opening nudity is also called dispensable. — Bill Simmons
Sarah’s Honda scooter ages badly for one host because he later crashed the same model. — Bill Simmons
Harlan Ellison’s claim that the story borrowed from his Outer Limits work led to a settlement and acknowledgement that Cameron bitterly rejected. — Bill Simmons
Ginger’s enormous post-sex sandwich, celery with peanut butter, milk, and dark-kitchen routine feel like a vanished 1980s horror convention. — Chris Ryan
The iguana exemplifies dated offbeat screen pets, while future John’s formal message omits affection and useful practical information for his mother. — Chris Ryan
The title, Arnold’s casting and dialogue, the gun-shop scene, supporting actors, synth score, romance, practical effects, and the unkillable-villain structure
The two-word title is praised as perfect, direct, sequel-friendly 1980s naming.
Arnold as a robot is called A-plus casting, and the gun-shop inventory scene turns his delivery, scale, and Dick Miller’s salesmanship into repeat-viewing pleasure.
Bill Paxton’s brief punk appearance, including his distinction as a Terminator/Alien/Predator victim, is a treasured cameo. — Bill Simmons
“Fuck you, asshole,” the address demand, and especially Cameron refusing Arnold’s requested “I will be back” rewrite preserve his signature vocal comedy.
Brad Fiedel’s synth pulse is picked as an enduring musical trigger despite its inexpensive-sounding era-specific tools.
Kyle’s claim that he crossed time for Sarah gives the romance enormous stakes, while the explicit hotel scene remains narratively essential because it conceives John Connor.
Stan Winston’s practical effects and Arnold’s effortless disposal of a visibly strong Rick Rossovich sustain the machine’s threat.
Russell reportedly stayed in character but removed the eye patch between takes because it damaged his depth perception. — Bill Simmons
East St. Louis was selected for its old buildings, river, bridge, and blocks of fire-damaged rubble. — Bill Simmons
The Chain of Rocks Bridge was reportedly purchased for one dollar, and the city darkened ten blocks nightly for filming. — Bill Simmons
An eleven-year-old J. J. Abrams reportedly prompted the insert proving Maggie died, which Carpenter shot with Adrian Barbeau in their garage. — Bill Simmons
James Cameron worked on visual effects and cinematography before The Terminator and was considered the set genius. — Bill Simmons
Only one name is written down: Gleeson. — Chris Ryan
Paxton is raised as an alternative, noting the hosts had mentioned Aliens three times without discussing him; Gleeson is still the choice. — Chris Ryan
The late Bill Paxton is praised as an icon of One False Move, Aliens and Near Dark, doing a bit of R. Lee Ermey and Hudson from Aliens and crushing the repeated Farell speech; he's never done anything but make a movie better. — Chris Ryan
In a making-of featurette, Blunt and Cruise love Liman's chaotic style while Paxton, a veteran of James Cameron movies such as True Lies, looks uneasy as Liman rewrites his lines between takes, though he stays respectful. — Sean Fennessey
The 'hell's coming with me' scene followed by the killing montage; Wyatt Earp confronting Billy Bob Thornton at the card table; or the stretch from Wyatt Earp, on his horse after Bill Paxton's death, seeing Powers Booth through to the creek
The nominated choices open with Wyatt Earp confronting a heavier Billy Bob Thornton near the beginning, the 'skin that smoke wagon' exchange played as a clip; Earp completely emasculates him and then tells the bartender he is taking 25% of the house; Thornton's grumbling just before, about playing cards with his brother's kids, is also loved and called a good heat check.
More nominees: the first OK Corral shootout and Kurt Russell's 'hell's coming with me' speech, played as a clip and followed by a montage of them killing people; the creek shootout, Russell's version of Larry Bird walking on water in the 1987 playoffs; and Kilmer versus Michael Biehn, one-on-one at the end.
Also proposed, the 'turn your head into a canoe' scene: after the character the hosts call Ben Johnson is killed, Kurt Russell comes out and pistol-whips the shooter, Thomas Hayden Church and the others surround Russell, and Val Kilmer shows up with 'you music lover' and 'I got two guns, one for each of you'.
The first 'I'm your Huckleberry' is nominated with a clip: Michael Biehn is drunk, some of his buddies already killed, and is trying to challenge Earp when Doc comes from the shadows of the saloon and delivers the famous line; beyond Kilmer, Biehn is called really good, against type, a great villain and a great Johnny Ringo, the real-life figure.
Biehn is so good that one host went online to research why his career was not bigger: The Terminator, this, Aliens and The Abyss, where he plays one of the crazy Navy SEALs, and then not much, partly because he stopped working with James Cameron, who makes few movies; it is argued he and Michael Rooker have switched parts, since 99 times out of 100 Rooker would play Ringo and Biehn the good guy you are not sure you trust, Rooker playing a lunatic in every movie.
One favorite is the 'hell's coming with me' scene and the killing montage that follows.
Asked whether anything else belongs in the pool, the answer is no, those are the big five. — Sean Fennessey
Another host does add one: the scene at the very beginning when the brothers and their three women get off the train and look at each other in the mirror; nobody goes for the twelve-minute theater sequence, which they would have told George to cut.
From a channel-flipping standpoint, if the film is on after Bill Paxton dies, with Kurt Russell on his horse pretending to leave and then seeing Powers Booth, one host watches from that point on, knowing he is going to stay and kill everybody and end it in the creek; that is called that host's favorite part.
Another host's favorite is the Billy Bob scene, and Thornton reportedly improvised all his dialogue, as Kurt Russell told the hosts, though with Thornton that is hard to verify.
Asks, with open waters in mind, why no one is seasick. — Amanda Dobbins
Cruise liners supposedly rock less, which another host disputes from experience; the film Brooklyn is cited for its portrayal of a transatlantic crossing where the heroine is sick all night.
Why make Rose an American when Kate Winslet is British and there were plenty of British heiresses? A host reasons that it was usually titled British men marrying American heiresses for money, as in Downton Abbey, so maybe that is why, though a British Rose could have been plausible.
If the ship makes it to New York, what does Rose do and how long until she realizes she made a mistake? One answer is half the time she has known Jack, a day and a half.
Another answer: without the sinking she never sees that Cal set Jack up, the moment behind her spit, and she would remember her mother cinching her corset, decide she does not want her mother to be poor, so the practical outcome is not going with Jack.
A later reading cuts the other way: even without the sinking, she would not want her mother to almost kill her again.
The corset scene is called an unimaginative American-epic trope for conveying class, as in Meet Me in St. Louis and Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind, very James Cameron.
Cameron has not gotten past Titanic personally and is still digging around in it rather than the Terminator world, making it his psychological apex; it is his apex in cultural significance if not filmmaking technique, and five Avatars will not outdo it.
A fatal flaw of Avatar is that handsome Sam Worthington's face barely appears, whereas Leonardo DiCaprio's face means so much to Titanic; another host wants evidence that Worthington can act first.
Kathy Bates's dialogue; 'draw me like one of your French girls'; the sound Gloria Stewart (as transcribed) makes throwing the heart of the ocean into the water
The award goes from one host to Kathy Bates, some of whose lines are absurd and dumb; another thinks that is partly intentional but agrees.
Another goes with 'draw me like one of your French girls', a favorite internet meme.
A third nominee is small: the sound Gloria Stewart (as transcribed) makes when she throws the heart of the ocean into the water; the whole heart of the ocean plot line is called unintentional comedy, recalling a Britney Spears video built around it.
The true gift of unintentional comedy is the memes of the last three or four years, which Cameron could never have foreseen, including a genre of innuendo jokes about the sinking ship, one of them read aloud.
Asked whether anyone who has spent extended time with Cameron has spoken well of him, the hosts can name only his current wife, met on this film and cast as old Rose's granddaughter, and the studio executives he made rich; Catherine Bigelow (as transcribed) is remembered for beating Avatar with Hurt Locker.
James Cameron's reputation has aged the worst: from the visionary of Aliens, True Lies, Titanic and Terminator to the wacky maker of a movie about blue people, with four sequels already written; one host would have liked another Avatar movie, and its realistic water drops are praised.
The boat is a fake-looking boat, though loved anyway: a film sold as a technical feat no longer holds up because the CGI sky and the ship are visible, and the sky might blend in better in a planetarium.
The last hour is a technical feat, but mostly an excuse to keep sending the leads back into the water to almost drown; one host likes the last hour precisely because it is so stupid, and another sees the feat as stretching the film longer than the actual sinking.
Some of the dialogue is laughable and wooden, Cameron never understood how two people interact, and even Kate Winslet and Leonardo DiCaprio cannot always sell it.
In dissent, one host found on rewatch that it had not aged that badly: the boat always looked a little fake, like a theme park ride, and such practical effects should age better than the CGI of Avatar.
Rose describing the Titanic as a slave ship at the start is offered as what has really aged the worst, though the speaker adds 'that was already bad', alongside a complaint that the script's mechanics and every beat are visible.
