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Venza may save the marriage

Bill Simmons: The crisis might reinvigorate Mike and Ellie, though divorce within a year is an alternative.

Chris Ryan: The strong premise could support a much more erotic film, with several additional intimacy scenes imagined.

The cynical marriage line and honesty

Bill Simmons: Scotty’s claim that marriage is obsolete is nominated; Mike’s admission of feelings is discussed as possible honesty in a close relationship rather than concealment.

The film

Someone to Watch Over Me (1987)

Directed by Ridley Scott · Thriller

106 minutes

Cast

Selected cast credits · Film reference

Tom Berenger Mike Keegan
Mimi Rogers Claire Gregory
Lorraine Bracco Ellie Keegan
Jerry Orbach Lt. Garber
John Rubinstein Neil Steinhart
Andreas Katsulas Joey Venza
Harley Cross Tommy
Jim Moriarty Koontz

Everything from the episode

In the order the hosts got to it. Open a row for the discussion.

28:54

Most Rewatchable Scene

The nighttime opening is an early scene nomination.

The nighttime opening is an early scene nomination.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:28:54Read transcript
  • The opening city imagery and title-song integration are called rewatchable. — Bill Simmons
30:25

Roger Ebert's review

2 stars (scale not stated)
In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 00:30:25Read transcript
  • Ebert says the high concept leaves the film on autopilot and misses the story’s point, ending with praise for the kitchen. — Chris Ryan
  • Pauline Kale’s separate review says Scott’s finicky care worried the fun out of the story; the response tells her to settle down. — Chris Ryan
31:21

Most Rewatchable Scene

Opening, cop party, apartment and high-society outing are nominated.

Opening, cop party, apartment and high-society outing are nominated.

In the discussion (5)
Approx. transcript time · 00:31:21Read transcript
  • The opening credits and Sting’s then-high singing range are praised. — Bill Simmons
  • The extended cop party establishes the promotion and a warm, teasing social world. — Chris Ryan
  • Getting lost in Claire’s apartment and her manner of handling the intrusion are memorable. — Bill Simmons
  • Tie shopping, wealthy friends fishing for information, the Guggenheim setting and chase are a favorite sequence. — Bill Simmons
  • Ellie learning about the tie and the last-day drink are nominated; the lovers’ connection is understood as present-tense escape rather than shared life histories. — Bill Simmons
32:49

What’s Aged the Best?

Cop parties remain enjoyable.

Cop parties remain enjoyable.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:32:49Read transcript
  • The long, familiar, teasing party is enjoyed as a social hang and effective promotion exposition. — Chris Ryan
38:40

Picking Nits

The long late-night drink should leave them more intoxicated.

The long late-night drink should leave them more intoxicated.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:38:40Read transcript
  • They get home at three in the morning after drinks; the speakers expect them to be more tipsy or drunk. — Chris Ryan
39:25

Mallory Rubin Award: Did This Movie Need a Better Sex Scene?

Yes, a less chaste scene could clarify the romantic choice.

Yes, a less chaste scene could clarify the romantic choice.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:39:25Read transcript
  • The hosts want more heat and contrast between Mike’s intimacy with the two women; fear of losing audience sympathy may explain restraint. — Bill Simmons
40:21

Most Rewatchable Scene

Ellie’s confrontation is a final personal scene choice.

Ellie’s confrontation is a final personal scene choice.

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 00:40:21Read transcript
  • The lunch confrontation and demand to return for her are praised. — Bill Simmons
  • The runner disguise, apartment mirrors and farewell exchange are enjoyed. — Bill Simmons
  • The hostage ending and opening club are additional candidates; Ellie learning about Claire is the final personal favorite. — Chris Ryan
41:21

What’s Aged the Worst?

The punch sound is badly timed.

The punch sound is badly timed.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:41:21Read transcript
  • The punch effect lands late and sounds wrong despite Scott’s visual precision. — Bill Simmons
43:17

Most Rewatchable Scene

The Guggenheim sequence is the other final preference.

The Guggenheim sequence is the other final preference.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:43:17Read transcript
  • The two personal final picks are the confrontation and Guggenheim outing. — Chris Ryan
43:26

The most 1987 thing

Sting and Steve Winwood evoke1987.

Sting and Steve Winwood evoke1987.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:43:26Read transcript
  • Sting’s theme and club music by Winwood are period choices, with Gabriel a contemporary comparison. — Chris Ryan
43:51

What’s Aged the Best?

Adult reactions, the child, cop details and domestic texture

Adult reactions, the child, cop details and domestic texture

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 00:43:51Read transcript
  • Ellie works through adultery rather than immediately ending everything, which is appreciated as adult complexity. — Bill Simmons
  • Tommy’s easygoing kid performance and Kuntz’s surprise stud earring are favorites. — Bill Simmons
  • A cop’s daughter marrying a cop and old-lady phrasing are enjoyed as period details, while the phrase is acknowledged as offensive; Bracco’s future Goodfellas role adds pleasure. — Bill Simmons
  • Two-way mirrors, the collared Jets sweatshirt, idea pronunciation, cramped homes and the friend’s bachelor-apartment arrangements are enjoyed. — Bill Simmons
48:06

The Great Shot Gordo Award for Most Cinematic Shot

The subway image

The subway image

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:48:06Read transcript
  • Behringer standing on the subway with the light hitting him is selected and admired. — Chris Ryan
48:27

The Den of Thieves Benihana Award for Scene-Stealing Location

The apartment and Guggenheim are nominated.

The apartment and Guggenheim are nominated.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:48:27Read transcript
  • The New York apartment and Guggenheim receive support. — Bill Simmons
48:41

The Slow Ride / Kid Cudi – Pursuit of Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop

Roberta Flack is preferred to Winwood.

Roberta Flack is preferred to Winwood.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:48:41Read transcript
48:49

The Amanda Dobbins Award for Best Piece of Real Estate

Claire’s apartment is nominated, then its set construction complicates the pick.

Claire’s apartment is nominated, then its set construction complicates the pick.

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 00:48:49Read transcript
  • The apartment is admired but reportedly built in Burbank; the Guggenheim is then suggested instead, with praise retained for the set. — Chris Ryan
  • The nightclub is admired and reportedly filmed on the Queen Mary. — Chris Ryan
49:29

Chest Rockwell / Brock Landers Award for Best Character Name

Wynn Hawkings is nominated; his unclear background prompts questions.

Wynn Hawkings is nominated; his unclear background prompts questions.

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 00:49:29Read transcript
  • The early murder victim’s name is the pick; spelling/pronunciation of Venza is separately debated. — Chris Ryan
  • The victim’s business, possible mafia ties and relationship with Claire are insufficiently explained. — Bill Simmons
50:35

The Sean Penn “I Brought My Own Pack” Award for Excellence in On-Screen Smoking

Joey Venza smoking while holding the child hostage wins.

Joey Venza smoking while holding the child hostage wins.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:50:35Read transcript
  • The cigarette, gun and restraint combination is praised as memorable smoking business; the performer’s chain-smoking reputation is discussed. — Bill Simmons
51:47

The Edie Falco in Cop Land Award for the Character Made Hotter by Smoking

Recipient unresolved from the transcript

Recipient unresolved from the transcript

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:51:47Read transcript
  • A dangling cigarette is mentioned after the hotter-smoking cue; no unambiguous named character is supplied. — Bill Simmons
51:59

The Vincent Chase Award: Are We Sure This Character Is Actually Good at Their Job?

The New York police are the flex choice.

The New York police are the flex choice.

Flex pick · Chris Ryan

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:51:59Read transcript
  • Knowing the killer yet failing to detain him or protect Claire makes the department look incompetent; the bathroom assault should itself prompt action. — Bill Simmons
52:37

The Butch’s Girlfriend Award for the Weakest Link in the Film

The last ten minutes fail to resolve the premise coherently.

The last ten minutes fail to resolve the premise coherently.

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 00:52:37Read transcript
  • Venza’s knowledge and plan, Mike bringing Claire into danger and the hostage swap are implausible, although Ellie shooting the villain is liked. — Bill Simmons
  • The period’s villains are described as unmotivated psychos rather than psychologically explained antagonists. — Chris Ryan
54:23

What’s Aged the Worst?

Claire’s self-portrait, the punch and the captain’s probing conversation

Claire’s self-portrait, the punch and the captain’s probing conversation

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 00:54:23Read transcript
  • The commissioned portrait is disliked and the bad punch sound reiterated. — Bill Simmons
  • Orbach’s hospital relationship probing is dated workplace behavior and conspicuously acted; fixing the punch is desired. — Bill Simmons
55:32

The Ruffalo / Hanna / Rubinek / Partridge Overacting Award

Venza

Venza

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:55:32Read transcript
  • His orders and loud demand for silence in the bathroom are nominated, with his unnoticed party access questioned. — Bill Simmons
56:05

The Stephen A. Smith Hottest Take Award

Venza may save the marriage; the film could have been a great erotic thriller.

Venza may save the marriage; the film could have been a great erotic thriller.

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 00:56:05Read transcript
  • The crisis might reinvigorate Mike and Ellie, though divorce within a year is an alternative. — Bill Simmons
  • The strong premise could support a much more erotic film, with several additional intimacy scenes imagined. — Chris Ryan
  • Buying Ellie a Claire-like dress is suggested as another way to dramatize the triangle; Craig compares the detailed pitching to sports analysis. — Bill Simmons
59:11

Casting What-Ifs

Rogers auditioned for both women; Stone tested for Claire.

Rogers auditioned for both women; Stone tested for Claire.

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 00:59:11Read transcript
  • Rogers reportedly preferred Ellie, returned dressed more elegantly for Claire and had previously tested with Behringer for Body Heat. — Chris Ryan
  • Stone reportedly lost Claire to Rogers, then reversed the result with Basic Instinct; the hosts think Stone would make the return to marriage less plausible. — Bill Simmons
1:00:45

Recasting Couch

Alternative women are tested across eras.

Alternative women are tested across eras.

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:00:45Read transcript
  • Sarandon is debated, with Davis or Griffith suggested for Ellie and Griffith’s damaged quality noted. — Bill Simmons
  • Later-era Kidman, Chastain and Demi Moore are considered; Rogers’s actual work remains praised. — Chris Ryan
1:02:18

The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award

Andreas Katsulas

Andreas Katsulas

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:02:18Read transcript
  • The Fugitive’s one-armed-man actor qualifies and wins despite the hosts knowing his name. — Bill Simmons
  • Mark Moses and TJ’s actor, identified via Marked for Death, are additional candidates. — Bill Simmons
1:02:40

The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance

Orbach and the provocative party woman receive support.

Orbach and the provocative party woman receive support.

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:02:40Read transcript
  • Orbach is favored for the love conversation; TJ, Scotty and the murder victim are alternatives. — Bill Simmons
  • The shooting-makes-you-hard lady is great in only a minute and a half. — Bill Simmons
1:03:22

Probably Unanswerable Questions

The party woman’s gun question is revisited.

The party woman’s gun question is revisited.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:03:22Read transcript
  • Whether shooting causes arousal gets a no followed by uncertainty and a Superbad comparison. — Bill Simmons
1:03:43

Recasting Couch

Franz or Caruso could fit.

Franz or Caruso could fit.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:03:43Read transcript
  • Dennis Franz as TJ and Caruso as Scotty or possibly Mike are proposed, with the timing considered early for Caruso. — Bill Simmons
1:05:10

Half-Assed Internet Research

No additional research

No additional research

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:05:10Read transcript
  • The Queen Mary location and Rogers research are recalled with no additional material. — Bill Simmons
1:05:10

Apex Mountain

Rogers and the Guggenheim receive support; other peaks are elsewhere.

Rogers and the Guggenheim receive support; other peaks are elsewhere.

In the discussion (6)
Approx. transcript time · 01:05:10Read transcript
  • Behringer’s Platoon/1987 period and Rogers’s lead-role/Cruise-marriage moment receive support. — Bill Simmons
  • Bracco’s Goodfellas, Katsulas’s Fugitive and Scott’s Gladiator are preferred to this film. — Bill Simmons
  • Three title-song versions make a case, but Mr Holland’s Opus is preferred for a more famous rendition scene. — Bill Simmons
  • Goodfellas is considered for Queens; Coming to America becomes the preferred answer. — Bill Simmons
  • The Guggenheim in movies receives support because no other scene comes to mind. — Bill Simmons
  • Claire is considered for rich-socialite characters, but The Talented Mr Ripley’s Marge is a strong alternative. — Bill Simmons
1:08:39

Cruise or Hanks?

Hanks

Hanks

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:08:39Read transcript
  • Both choose Hanks, after joking about Cruise’s restrained romantic scenes. — Craig Horlbeck
1:09:02

Scorsese or Spielberg?

Scorsese is favored.

Scorsese is favored.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:09:02Read transcript
  • The material fits Scorsese, with a cocaine-filled bachelor-apartment scene imagined. — Bill Simmons
1:09:30

What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman play?

Wynn, Neil or Koontz.

Wynn, Neil or Koontz.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:09:30Read transcript
  • The murder victim and boyfriend are possibilities; the cop with the stud earring is the other pick. — Bill Simmons
1:09:40

Picking Nits

Venza’s plan, police logic and Claire’s choices are weak.

Venza’s plan, police logic and Claire’s choices are weak.

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:09:40Read transcript
  • His criminal business, public murder, release and need to kill Claire are unclear; the speakers report that real witness protection would relocate her rather than allow social outings. — Bill Simmons
  • Neil needs a stronger reason for Claire’s interest and should not leave her under threat; her informal bathroom wording seems out of character. — Bill Simmons
  • Mike should guard the bathroom, and Venza could kill Claire instead of shouting and smearing lipstick before being caught. — Bill Simmons
1:12:58

Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake

One participant wants no extension; another pitches a richer television version.

One participant wants no extension; another pitches a richer television version.

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:12:58Read transcript
  • There is little desire for more backstory outside Venza, and a series might collapse by episode six. — Bill Simmons
  • An Apple-style rich-people show could explore Queens cops and marriages, with an absurd child-killer twist joked about; The invited participant says the pitch seeks more erotic scenes. — Chris Ryan
1:14:30

Is This Movie Better With…?

Wayne Jenkins and Doris Burke impressions are offered.

Wayne Jenkins and Doris Burke impressions are offered.

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:14:30Read transcript
  • A threatening cop impression addresses the two-armed performer and witness intimidation; the other host praises it. — Bill Simmons
  • A brief Doris Burke call of Mike’s marital dilemma follows an initial lack of prepared material. — Bill Simmons
1:15:22

Just One Oscar

Bracco for supporting actress.

Bracco for supporting actress.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:15:22Read transcript
  • Bracco is selected and praised as a supporting actress. — Bill Simmons
1:15:40

Probably Unanswerable Questions

How wealthy is Claire, how does she meet people, and what comes after the breakup?

How wealthy is Claire, how does she meet people, and what comes after the breakup?

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:15:40Read transcript
  • Inheritance, family money, former engagement and charity work are imagined rather than established. — Bill Simmons
  • She is considered an exceptional but intimidating partner; her next relationships after danger and heartbreak are questioned. — Bill Simmons
  • An Italian count, much older partner or athlete are joking possibilities. — Bill Simmons
1:19:38

The Andy and Red – Zihuatanejo Award for What Happens the Next Day?

A bleak divorce future is predicted.

A bleak divorce future is predicted.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:19:38Read transcript
  • Mike and Ellie are imagined divorcing, with financial ruin, extra work and early death for Mike; the other speaker agrees. — Bill Simmons
1:19:57

What Piece of Memorabilia Would You Want From This Movie?

The Jets sweatshirt; the tie

The Jets sweatshirt; the tie

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:19:57Read transcript
  • The sweatshirt is wanted as a gift and the tie another option, while the bachelor-pad bunk bed is unwanted. — Bill Simmons
1:20:20

The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson

The cynical marriage line and honesty

The cynical marriage line and honesty

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:20:20Read transcript
  • Scotty’s claim that marriage is obsolete is nominated; Mike’s admission of feelings is discussed as possible honesty in a close relationship rather than concealment. — Bill Simmons
1:21:11

Best Double Feature

Jagged Edge and Black Widow are the personal picks.

Jagged Edge and Black Widow are the personal picks.

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:21:11Read transcript
  • Jagged Edge is one choice and Black Widow the other, with Fatal Attraction an alternative. — Bill Simmons
  • Jagged Edge’s1985 date is corrected while Suspect is offered as another1987 option; Black Widow shares a strong first90minutes and poor ending.
1:22:05

Who Won the Movie?

Ridley Scott and Mimi Rogers split the choices.

Ridley Scott and Mimi Rogers split the choices.

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:22:05Read transcript
  • Scott is selected after the cast is called a push. — Chris Ryan
  • Mimi is chosen because this movie left the speaker wishing she had done more, while Braco got other good roles. — Bill Simmons
Podcast choices
1:22:53

Producer review

Craig enjoyed the unfamiliar film and especially Rogers.

Craig enjoyed the unfamiliar film and especially Rogers.

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:22:53Read transcript
  • The invited viewer says the hosts have converted him: this movie hits love triangle, twangy guitar and dance-club squares in80s movie bingo. — Bill Simmons
  • The hair is praised but the lack of a strong sex scene or nudity is a miss.
  • Rogers’s performance impresses a viewer who knew her name but not her face or work.
1:23:24

Apex Mountain

The three lead hairdos are an extra Apex nomination.

The three lead hairdos are an extra Apex nomination.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:23:24Read transcript
  • The hairdos are compared to Wade, LeBron and Bosch; the mom hair borders on Marge Simpson. — Bill Simmons
1:25:35

Did This Movie Need a Random Sports Scene?

A Jets outing is needed; a skateboarding sequence is another idea.

A Jets outing is needed; a skateboarding sequence is another idea.

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:25:35Read transcript
  • Mike and cop friends discussing the affair at a Jets game is proposed; Tommy skateboarding while Mike daydreams is an alternative joke. — Bill Simmons

More from the conversation

Repeated Tubi recommendations prompt a one-for-us episode; Craig’s quoted text sees an unfamiliar mid-budget action film with a major director, while the hosts recognize former screen favorites.
Approx. transcript time · 00:00:56Read transcript
Meeting Chris Bauer and opening with praise for8mm instead of his better-known work becomes a brief anecdote.
Approx. transcript time · 00:03:01Read transcript
The flawed-rewatchable checklist allows a great hang, performances exceeding the film, a weak ending and style over plot; random ensemble choices, sex and violence help.
Approx. transcript time · 00:03:28Read transcript
Rogers and Bracco offer two compelling lives for the married cop; the appeal is understanding temptation without excusing it, in a moral-crossroads thriller tradition.
Approx. transcript time · 00:05:04Read transcript
The cramped but warm Queens home and expansive Manhattan apartment visually communicate the class choice; Rogers praises Scott’s lighting and lenses.
Approx. transcript time · 00:08:54Read transcript
A Bobby Wygant interview and modern press-tour comparison lead to Rogers’s reported hair highlights chosen to catch Scott’s nighttime lighting.
Approx. transcript time · 00:10:25Read transcript
Noir homage, location choice and Scott’s desire for contemporary characters after large-scale genre work explain the film’s look; the complaint about his wife’s swearing reveals class attraction beyond sex.
Approx. transcript time · 00:11:53Read transcript
Berenger’s charisma seems underused: westerns and larger leading roles are imagined, but a slightly dark character-actor quality distinguishes him from Costner or conventional stars.
Approx. transcript time · 00:15:38Read transcript
Scott reportedly cast Berenger after a Platoon rough cut; the later B-movie work is enjoyed, while lack of prestige-TV alternatives and limited major roles may explain the career path.
Approx. transcript time · 00:17:59Read transcript
Bracco’s wife is praised as a difficult, charming role that avoids making the marriage disposable; her modeling background contrasts with the deliberately plain styling.
Approx. transcript time · 00:20:48Read transcript
A Rogers biography rundown covers early graduation, poker, Mensa, relationships and Scientology; quoted marriage comments are explicitly followed by her retraction/misquotation claim. The speakers speculate that privacy may have shaped her career.
Approx. transcript time · 00:22:29Read transcript
The Rapture is praised; a half-remembered massage film is identified on the podcast as Full Body Massage with Bryan Brown and Nicolas Roeg, with initial uncertainty about its television status.
Approx. transcript time · 00:24:59Read transcript
Rogers conveys both an insulated elite social world and new vulnerability, making the cop’s protection and masculinity credible attractions; Jessica Chastain is floated as a current analogue.
Approx. transcript time · 00:27:00Read transcript
The Gershwin title song appears in Sting, Roberta Flack and original versions; the opening’s nighttime city imagery is compared to Lethal Weapon.
Approx. transcript time · 00:28:15Read transcript
Scott’s surrounding filmography and the reported12.8-million cost/10.3-million gross establish this as a box-office loser the hosts still enjoy; the spoken budget briefly varies.
Approx. transcript time · 00:29:20Read transcript
Craig’s proposed intimacy category chooses the awkward hair pulling, compared to checking for a wig or wire; a Michael Douglas/Roxy dance is another reference.
Approx. transcript time · 01:04:29Read transcript