The heavy cross-cutting makes the category a pickle; Hardy running out of fuel stretches across about 20 minutes in three sections, and one participant says the three of them can set the rules anew.
A scene here is rarely two characters in a room; Nolan captures moments rather than scenes in a quiet movie that is also one of the loudest.
The host offers four picks: the leaflets falling through to the beach and the mole credit, saving the shivering soldier, Commander Bolton seeing the armada, and Farrier setting his plane ablaze while being taken.
Not knowing that a mole is a jetty, one participant first thought it meant a spy.
The first 45 minutes are treated as a sequence running from the leaflets to the beach and the mole credit, followed by the air attack on the beach with perhaps the greatest shot in war-movie history. — Quentin Tarantino
The lead (Tommy) is apparently never called by name in the film and meets no one who knows him.
His silence is compared to Eastwood and Siegel's Frank Morris in Escape from Alcatraz rather than McQueen in Le Mans; the kid is not heroic, just trying to survive, and the opening scene has him trying to relieve himself. — Quentin Tarantino
Nolan shoots practically when he can; the beach shot was probably staged with a series of closer explosions and a dummy touched up afterward; Saving Private Ryan's great shots are all in its opening section.
Tommy's story is a series of jailbreaks that each land him in another prison, as when the boat goes down after the jam sandwich and tea.
George running up to the boat is heartbreaking on rewatch because he is going to die.
The film is both vast and enclosed: ocean and beach against cockpits, sinking ships and the narrow mole; the only solution was 800 boats from England.
The first dogfight gives a primal playing-with-toys feeling, and its "I'm on him / he's on me" exchange is named as a personal best quote. — Chris Ryan
The fire-on-the-water sequence with the men on the Moonstone and Hardy's point of view of the bomber while low on fuel is called unreal; the first dogfight ends when the flight commander's plane is nicked.
Asked for more, the sinking of the ship is named. — Quentin Tarantino
The sinking of the ship is called amazing, along with the shot of the torpedo seen coming toward the men like Jaws.
Asked for a vote, one participant says for the emotion it has to be the British soldiers seeing the armada.
Another voice agrees but would probably throw a vote to the stretcher run, where Zimmer's score truly kicks in; the men carry the stretcher for mercenary reasons, trying to get on the boat, and are booted off.
Another goes with the leaflet scene as both peaceful and terrifying.
One participant calls the opening his favorite scene but says the Armada is the emotional payoff; watching it in London, all the Brits were crying.
Branagh is cast for that payoff; old men in small boats coming to take their boys home feels perfectly British, as does the blind man handing out blankets.

What’s Aged the Best?

The structure; Hans Zimmer's score; the sound design; Mark Rylance; Nolan's virtuosity; the casting of authentic faces

In the discussion (11)

Approx. transcript time · 00:41:18Read transcript

The structure is brilliant, still elusive in its construction, and rewards rewatching; nothing is out of place in the first half and the middle is a symphony.
The film deserved its Best Editing Oscar and it is a crime the score did not win; the score may define the decade.
Zimmer recorded the ticking from one of Nolan's pocket watches and processed it through synthesizers; the clock does not stop until Alex and Tommy sit safely on the train.
Zimmer and Nolan are compared to Leone and Morricone; the score works as sound filling a palette left open by sparse dialogue.
The film is framed as a Hitchcock movie masquerading as a war movie, a suspense puzzle about who will survive, with the question whether that had been done before.
The closest predecessor offered is It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World: cross-cutting held together by the "earnest gold" theme, Hardy's plane recalling Buddy Hackett and "Mickey Runy" (transcript spelling), the trapped boat recalling Sid Caesar and Edie Adams in the basement, and both being convergence movies.
The sound design, especially the dive-bomber overhead, is separate from the score and visceral.
Mark Rylance, seen in Wolf Hall and known for female Shakespeare roles, brings stillness to the old man going to sea.
Nolan's virtuosity: Dunkirk, rather than The Dark Knight, is called his Apex Mountain; it dealt him in as a great filmmaker beyond Gotham and science fiction and brought Warner Brothers along as Kubrick did; Interstellar, Dunkirk and Tenet are original big-budget studio stories.
It is hard to imagine the film imitated or topped; a linear cut would not hold together; the faces look like photographs of British soldiers in 1940. — Chris Ryan
Harry Styles, covered in oil, plays the soldier most aggressive toward the French character and is good despite being a huge pop star.

What’s Aged the Worst?

No affirmative selection

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 00:51:11Read transcript

After 40 minutes of praise the category is tough; the time-shifting device is raised as a question of whether it will be seen as a hallmark or a crutch, and as what critics would use against it.
One participant did not notice the time shifts until the fourth viewing (the medical ship bombed three times, repeated dialogue, night and day) and calls that seamless filmmaking.

Casting What-Ifs

Skipped

In the discussion (1)

Approx. transcript time · 01:02:15Read transcript

The host saw no casting what-ifs and asks the others; the answer is no, and talk turns to Michael Caine's voice in the film.

Half-Assed Internet Research

Nolan's 1990s Channel crossing; casting unknowns; rebuilding the mole; inspiration films; Spitfire filming; Dawson's real-life model

In the discussion (8)

Approx. transcript time · 01:02:29Read transcript

Michael Caine's voice is briefly in the film, in the airplane.
New movies come with so much reporting that the research runs ten pages, unlike older films such as Butch Cassidy.
The idea came to Nolan in the mid-1990s on a Channel crossing with Emma Thomas that took 19 hours in rough weather.
The filmmakers wanted few stars and cast rookies; the mole was rebuilt from blueprints at about 900 feet for $900,000.
Inspirations listed: It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, Greed, Intolerance, Sunrise, A Man Escaped, Pickpocket, Saving Private Ryan, The Wages of Fear, and Alien.
The technical difficulty gratifies rather than distracts; the stretch of beach is Nolan's Gettysburg.
Cockpit shots used a two-seat plane dressed as a Spitfire flown from the rear, cameras on a reconditioned Spitfire and camera operators in the water; the oil fire and static dogfight shots seem baffling.
Dawson is based on the Titanic's second officer (transcribed "Charles Lightholer"), who took his yacht Sundowner to Dunkirk at 66, had lost an RAF son, and packed in over 55 men.

The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance

Barry Keoghan as George

In the discussion (6)

Approx. transcript time · 01:08:09Read transcript

The guest knows the category but not who Dion Waiters is. — Quentin Tarantino
Harry Styles was written down but the film may not be that kind of movie; Hardy could be an inverted case, doing the most with the least while masked.
Leads cannot win: Rylance on the boat, Hardy in the air and the unnamed kid.
Branagh and Murphy are considered; Rylance is a lead over Murphy, so there is a case for Murphy, though PTSD performances are tricky.
The Murphy section is one participant's least favorite part, compared to not liking every story in Magnolia or Slacker, though its brevity makes it work and his first reveal is great.
George is picked, and a second voice says it will go George too: "Barry Keown" (transcript spelling).

The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award

No affirmative selection

In the discussion (5)

Approx. transcript time · 01:11:44Read transcript

The award has to be retroactive: the known supporting actors are not that guys, while every actor under 25 has become one.
The young cast is listed: Whitehead, Barnard (seen in The Goldfinch), Loudon, Keown, Tom Glenn Carney and Styles (transcript spellings).
Giving it to Styles is floated, with the question whether he is overqualified.
Caine's uncredited voice cameo as the RAF flight leader is his seventh Nolan film, after an RAF role in Battle of Britain.
Nolan's quoted reason for casting Styles, comparing it to Heath Ledger's Joker, is called a press-junket line and debatable.

The Ruffalo / Hanna / Rubinek / Partridge Overacting Award

Cillian Murphy

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 01:13:56Read transcript

The award was renamed for Julianne Moore on the Magnolia episode; one participant, who says he wrote the Rubinek character, objects, and the award stays the Saul Rubinek Award for this podcast.
Murphy is chosen as the only performer with a really dramatic moment; the rest is sheer terror and survival.

Apex Mountain

Christopher Nolan at Dunkirk

In the discussion (9)

Approx. transcript time · 01:15:28Read transcript

Harry Styles is offered as a joke answer.
This was Nolan's first Best Director nomination; it is an achievement movie, like Titanic for Cameron, and one answer is yes for all those reasons.
An Apex heat check would be The Dark Knight or Inception, but Dunkirk showed how great he could be and put him with the greatest.
A dissent: the next film is unseen, and Inception showed an original story could be as big as The Dark Knight.
The reply calls Inception a marketed product; Inception is loved by one participant and lukewarm for another.
The Dark Knight is called the most important movie of the century for resetting the industry, the academy and moviegoers.
Granting the point, he asks whether that makes The Dark Knight Batman's apex and not Nolan's. — Quentin Tarantino
Asked outside Apex, Dunkirk is called best and favorite Nolan film; another participant warmly regards Memento and ranks Dunkirk, Batman Begins, then The Dark Knight but enjoys The Prestige more; one participant says he is on "Inception Island" alone.
The agreement is that it is Nolan's Apex Mountain for now, one participant defers; Dunkirk is his 2001 and he is Warner's Kubrick.

Picking Nits

Luftwaffe yellow nose cones; visible Weymouth Sea Life Tower

In the discussion (5)

Approx. transcript time · 01:21:20Read transcript

The Luftwaffe did not paint fighter nose cones yellow until later in 1940.
In scenes shot in Weymouth, the top of the Sea Life Tower, built around 2012, is visible.
There are few story nits once the structure is accepted, beyond why someone did not swim back.
The hosts joke about picking nits with British pre-war strategy; they state Churchill was only 16 days into his tenure and that Czechoslovakia would have nits of its own.
No other nits are offered.

The Neil McCauley “A Book about Metals” Award for Best Line from the Movie

"Well done."; "Men my age dictate this war. Why should we be allowed to send our children to fight it?"; "You can practically see it from here." "What?" "Home."; "I'm staying. For the French."; "Then it's good that you're Army and I'm Navy, isn't it?"

In the discussion (7)

Approx. transcript time · 01:22:26Read transcript

"Well done" is offered first, with the exchange with the blind man about surviving.
Rylance's "men my age dictate this war" and the weekend-sailors exchange are recited.
Bolton's "You can practically see it from here." "What?" "Home." is recited.
Branagh's "I'm staying. For the French." is the only line that stood out for one participant, the payoff where Britain can live up to its ideals.
Branagh gets the best lines, including the tide exchange ending "it's good that you're Army and I'm Navy", called a good one.
Hardy's shrug when he stays to defend the medical ship and his opening the cockpit while gliding are gestures that read as lines; a best-gesture category is joked about.
Hardy coasting over the shoreline in silence is as good as any quote; the town scenes were shot elsewhere because Dunkirk was destroyed. — Chris Ryan

Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 01:26:12Read transcript

The achievement is that it could have been done that way, and most filmmakers would have.
A Dunkirk miniseries is joked about, like Gettysburg or North and South, with an episode checking in on the Belgians.
Thank God he did not and kept it lean.

Probably Unanswerable Questions

Was Farrier rescued or taken to a POW camp?; Which one of the three stories would you watch?; Was Dunkirk snubbed in 2017?

In the discussion (4)

Approx. transcript time · 01:26:58Read transcript

Farrier ends up in a German prison camp; a Farrier prisoner-of-war camp movie is wanted, and he would spend about five years there like the gardening prisoner in The Great Escape.
If only one story could be watched, the river-rat story is chosen; the air story is the blockbuster but lacks dynamism alone, and that survival story is what is understood least.
Yes, it was snubbed; Shape of Water won; whether a July release hurt is left open.
The score loss and missing screenplay nomination are big snubs; the storytelling is with scissors, music and images; the cinematographer (transcribed "Hoitsevan Hoitama") was also overlooked; a 76-78 page script may have been held against it.

Who Won the Movie?

Christopher Nolan

In the discussion (6)

Approx. transcript time · 01:33:30Read transcript

Nolan is called the obvious answer; Styles is joked as winning every category.
Fionn Whitehead is proposed because the hosts have been merciless with him, and another voice would be okay with that.
Zimmer is suggested; no review of the film could omit his name.
The Battle of Dunkirk itself is floated: the film gave one participant a new relationship to a history he had not thought important.
Zimmer gets a rehabilitation of reputation, cemented as an icon of his craft.
The final answer is Christopher Nolan, with silver and bronze around him and a shout-out to the RAF.

Podcast choices

Speaker not identified: Christopher Nolan

More from the conversation

Cold open of film audio; the host introduces the episode with Chris Ryan and special guest Quentin Tarantino.

Approx. transcript time · 00:00:00Read transcript

Asked why Dunkirk, the guest says he was making a top-10 list of the 2010s; a third viewing moved it from a preliminary seventh to second, and he wanted to explore it fresh.

Approx. transcript time · 00:00:54Read transcript

The host has complex feelings about Nolan; the co-host adores him and found the ArcLight viewing one of the most overwhelming physical experiences in a theater, shot on "God's tripod".

Approx. transcript time · 00:02:28Read transcript

Film details as read on air: written and directed by Nolan, unknowns plus Branagh, Murphy, Rylance and Hardy, a Hans Zimmer score, released July 21, 2017 by Warner Brothers, $150 million reported budget, $526 million box office, three Oscars and five other nominations, 92% on Rotten Tomatoes.

Approx. transcript time · 00:03:44Read transcript

The host says this is the most recent film covered apart from A Star Is Born.

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The guest first saw it at Nolan's early-morning directors' screening at the Universal CityWalk IMAX with Michael Mann, Walter Hill and Paul Thomas Anderson; the spectacle numbed him emotionally.

Approx. transcript time · 00:05:19Read transcript

He followed emotion rather than the one-week/one-day/one-hour plotting; on opening weekend at the ArcLight almost every screen showed Dunkirk.

Approx. transcript time · 00:06:39Read transcript

In London he skipped the Bat Out of Hell musical to see Dunkirk at Piccadilly Circus; young British staff were proud of a British film about a British event, which tipped the scales; only the third viewing let him see past the spectacle to the people.

Approx. transcript time · 00:08:09Read transcript

Nolan is called a director without a country; Dunkirk is his most British film, contrasted with Shaun of the Dead as a London-rooted film.

Approx. transcript time · 00:11:09Read transcript

The hosts say the evacuation is ingrained in British character while Americans know little of it, and the release was pitched as a Nolan throwback event outside science fiction and comic books.

Approx. transcript time · 00:12:05Read transcript

The co-host's British father was born in 1942 and his grandfather served in the RAF; the film's stiff-upper-lip resolve resonated with his father.

Approx. transcript time · 00:13:13Read transcript

Some categories may not suit this film; Nolan's cross-cut set pieces with Zimmer's score could be parodied, but Dunkirk sustains it for the whole film and rewards repeat viewing.

Approx. transcript time · 00:14:28Read transcript

No characters are known by name except George; the general's exposition is joked as "Bane in a plane".

Approx. transcript time · 00:17:05Read transcript

A participant who has been more critical of Nolan, and a question of whether manipulating a real event works, are raised; a laptop rewatch with AirPods had the same effect; the film plays as a sustained third act, like a trailer with weight, and its brevity is praised.

Approx. transcript time · 00:17:19Read transcript

Every movie is a genre movie; big battle movies such as Battle of the Bulge, The Longest Day, Waterloo, Midway and Tora! Tora! Tora! are dramatized Wikipedia, with "Alexander Neski" (transcript spelling of Alexander Nevsky) the artistic benchmark.

Approx. transcript time · 00:18:59Read transcript

Nolan made Dunkirk less to tell what happened than to make it a movie, kept it from bloating, and leaves viewers wanting to learn more.

Approx. transcript time · 00:20:44Read transcript

A Bridge Too Far is compared as a detailed film about failure with hope; William Goldman is cited on the bravest moment being unusable on film.

Approx. transcript time · 00:21:28Read transcript

Dunkirk's Britishness plus adrenaline is unusual; many older British war films seem dusty now, though Ice Cold in Alex still has juice; Is Paris Burning? is cited for national character.

Approx. transcript time · 00:23:00Read transcript

The hosts say the British romanticize their defeats as other countries do triumphs, with Dunkirk the example; "well done" is called the theme.

Approx. transcript time · 00:24:16Read transcript

Asked whether they like being confused, one answer is only when in good hands with an intentional author, citing open questions about Cliff Booth and Chris Mannix.

Approx. transcript time · 00:52:17Read transcript

Atonement's Dunkirk material and late twist are contrasted with Nolan, who does not reverse the clock on George for manipulation.

Approx. transcript time · 00:54:58Read transcript

Jargon-filled professional scripts are a pleasure; Bull Durham makes viewers minor-league experts because Ron Shelton knows the world; Dunkirk's confusion is about time.

Approx. transcript time · 00:56:08Read transcript

Ad Astra is criticized for unexplained events and for borrowing Apocalypse Now's structure; Dunkirk by contrast always lets viewers sense what is happening.

Approx. transcript time · 00:58:02Read transcript

The hosts describe the beach soldiers' frustration with the absent RAF and the officers' choice to put British evacuation ahead of the French; they state France fell and England escaped so the war continued; one stretcher takes the room of seven standing men.

Approx. transcript time · 01:00:27Read transcript

Whether Dunkirk will grow in estimation and how films enter the canon now: repeated cable viewings (Zodiac on HBO) forge a film in memory, called the inspiration for the show; Dunkirk is always two minutes from something extraordinary.

Approx. transcript time · 01:30:54Read transcript

Closing thoughts: the film refuses half the show's categories, and it plays like a trailer in a great way, sustaining anticipation throughout.

Approx. transcript time · 01:35:51Read transcript