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Negotiate with Paimon

Sean Fennessey: Hereditary is read as absurdly comic fatalism: attempts to understand or repair the family cannot prevent inherited doom.

Chris Ryan: Take a meeting with Paimon and negotiate for wealth and insight rather than let the family be decapitated.

Carry EpiPen

Carry an EpiPen, leave after a parent’s dangerous incident and build a strong community; the cult’s patience and coordinated execution supply the cynical community example.

The film

Hereditary (2018)

Directed by Ari Aster · Horror

Cast

Selected cast credits · Film reference

Everything from the episode

In the order the hosts got to it. Open a row for the discussion.

8:00

Six Types of Horror Movies

Grisly; normal scary; popcorn; safe creepy; artsy creepy; full-fledged creepy

Grisly; normal scary; popcorn; safe creepy; artsy creepy; full-fledged creepy

The panel proposes a new category here.

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 00:08:00Read transcript
  • The first proposed types are grisly/torture horror, ordinary scary horror and teen-oriented popcorn horror, with examples and differing tolerance for gore. — Bill Simmons
  • Three creepy types follow: safe supernatural thrills, artsy discomfort and fully realized dread; Hereditary is placed in the last group rather than merely artsy horror. — Bill Simmons
  • The highest aspiration is the fully realized dread of The Shining or The Exorcist; ordinary horror is a frequent viewing preference, while prestige framing may be marketing.
16:23

Half-Assed Internet Research

Budget and gross; CinemaScore; Aster’s preparation; production and score

Budget and gross; CinemaScore; Aster’s preparation; production and score

In the discussion (7)
Approx. transcript time · 00:16:23Read transcript
  • Aster reportedly prepared a seventy-five-page shot list for his feature debut; his meticulous technique, shorts and personal sensibility are praised. — Sean Fennessey
  • The film reportedly cost $10 million and made $87.8 million, becoming A24’s highest grosser until Everything Everywhere All at Once. — Bill Simmons
  • The reported D-plus CinemaScore is discussed as a mismatch between marketing expectations and experience, with skepticism about horror scores generally. — Sean Fennessey
  • An Australian family-screening mistake is reported as the whole film rather than merely its trailer; this remains the episode’s claim rather than an independently verified event. — Bill Simmons
  • Aster reportedly fought an unnamed financier over the final cut and wrote detailed biographies for every character. — Bill Simmons
  • Stetson reportedly drew score inspiration from water and animal sounds heard while walking in darkness. — Bill Simmons
  • One friend smoking with Peter is said to appear later among the cult, supporting the interpretation that its influence surrounds the family. — Chris Ryan
17:38

The Stephen A. Smith Hottest Take Award

Negotiate with Paimon; cultist nudity; hell as a blank slate; dark comedy

Negotiate with Paimon; cultist nudity; hell as a blank slate; dark comedy

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 00:17:38Read transcript
  • Hereditary is read as absurdly comic fatalism: attempts to understand or repair the family cannot prevent inherited doom. — Sean Fennessey
  • Take a meeting with Paimon and negotiate for wealth and insight rather than let the family be decapitated. — Chris Ryan
  • The cultists’ rejection of clothes and shame has appeal; whether naked smiling people are scarier than dangerous animals is debated.
  • Hell-based horror is called easy to invent because its rules are unconstrained; the defense is that Aster researched actual demon lore. — Bill Simmons
18:35

Just One Oscar

Toni Collette

Toni Collette

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 00:18:35Read transcript
  • Collette’s lack of a nomination is criticized, with McCarthy’s nominated performance a possible replacement; her sudden maternal confession and frazzled confidence are singled out. — Bill Simmons
  • Collette is the agreed Oscar choice. — Bill Simmons
29:15

Most Rewatchable Scene

Final stretch after Steve burns; Charlie’s telephone-pole death

Final stretch after Steve burns; Charlie’s telephone-pole death

In the discussion (12)
Approx. transcript time · 00:29:15Read transcript
  • Annie’s support-group family history is nominated, with the distant elevated camera slowly approaching her face as inherited catastrophe unfolds.
  • The party setup is examined: bringing Charlie strains plausibility, while the classroom’s fate discussion and the nut-filled cake suggest predestination.
  • Charlie’s decapitation is startling and effective, helped by a trailer that misleadingly positioned her as central without revealing the death.
  • Peter’s shutdown and silent return home are disturbing; holding on his face while Annie screams is praised, while shock is offered as a defense of his behavior. — Bill Simmons
  • The head with ants, Charlie cutting the bird’s head off and the designs on the telephone pole match other clues noticed on later viewings.
  • Annie’s second meeting with Joan is nominated, with a brief tangent about Dowd’s college. — Bill Simmons
  • The paint-thinner story and Annie calling her accident miniature a neutral view combine painful family history with absurd dark humor. — Bill Simmons
  • The dinner confrontation is nominated for Collette’s furious maternal speech, compared jokingly with a dysfunctional-family SNL sketch. — Chris Ryan
  • The family séance is nominated and considered an obviously dangerous decision, especially the insistence that everyone attend and recite unknown words.
  • Annie deciphering albums and books, Peter’s classroom breakdown, showing Steve the attic and Steve burning are further candidates. — Bill Simmons
  • The preferred final stretch begins with Steve burning and Peter discovering his father’s body and his mother on the ceiling; the transfer logic and piano-wire death are discussed.
  • A second choice supports the ending after Steve burns, while another explicitly chooses the telephone-pole death. — Sean Fennessey
43:20

What’s Aged the Best?

House; insects; repeat-viewing clues; score; Dowd; classroom homage

House; insects; repeat-viewing clues; score; Dowd; classroom homage

In the discussion (8)
Approx. transcript time · 00:43:20Read transcript
  • The secluded Utah house, treehouse, driveway and Annie’s work area are praised as ideal horror real estate and an appealing place to live. — Bill Simmons
  • Ants and flies remain effective horror devices, with personal aversions to insects and rodents compared.
  • Repeated viewing exposes funeral cult members, the grandmother’s wishes, the bird, pole and card clues; comparison with The Sixth Sense’s twist-driven appeal is disputed.
  • The film caps a formative A24 run that introduced filmmakers and lasting audience favorites.
  • The unsettling score’s creaks and sounds create dread without functioning as ordinary listening music.
  • Peter’s head-slamming is effective sudden self-injury horror, though later films copying the device can also make it feel overused. — Chris Ryan
  • Dowd’s run through this film, The Leftovers and The Handmaid’s Tale is praised as a dark trio, with a college-dorm tangent.
  • The classroom staging is admired as a Halloween homage, including the window placement.
48:10

The Great Shot Gordo Award for Most Cinematic Shot

Opening miniature-to-room push; Steve burning

Opening miniature-to-room push; Steve burning

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 00:48:10Read transcript
  • The opening push from the miniature into a real room is the principal Great Shot choice, emphasizing the deliberately constructed sets.
  • Steve burning is another shot choice, followed by a Mike Breen-style call. — Chris Ryan
49:50

The most GIFable moment

Charlie at the window; Annie’s piano wire

Charlie at the window; Annie’s piano wire

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:49:50Read transcript
  • Charlie’s head out the window is the leading GIF choice; Annie’s piano-wire motion is another suggested reaction image. — Bill Simmons
50:26

The Den of Thieves Benihana Award for Scene-Stealing Location

Graham house

Graham house

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:50:26Read transcript
  • The house is the clear scene-stealing location. — Bill Simmons
50:33

The Slow Ride / Kid Cudi – Pursuit of Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop

Judy Collins’s closing-credit song

Judy Collins’s closing-credit song

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:50:33Read transcript
  • The closing song is first attributed to Joni Mitchell, then corrected to Judy Collins’s version; the Reborn/Hail Paimon score tracks are also praised. — Chris Ryan
50:46

The Big Kahuna Burger Award for Best Use of Food and Drink

Chocolate bars; nut-filled cake

Chocolate bars; nut-filled cake

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:50:46Read transcript
  • Chocolate bars and the nut-filled cake are choices, encompassing Charlie’s sweet tooth.
51:15

The Butch’s Girlfriend Award for the Weakest Link in the Film

Underdeveloped friends; difficult first-viewing comprehension

Underdeveloped friends; difficult first-viewing comprehension

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 00:51:15Read transcript
  • Peter’s friends and prospective girlfriend could be better developed, especially their apparent lack of reaction to his sister’s death. — Bill Simmons
  • The complicated first viewing is a qualified weakness, with repeat viewings needed to connect details even if the final possession is clear. — Bill Simmons
52:31

What’s Aged the Worst?

Clicking sound; method behavior; copied head-smashing; elevated-horror label

Clicking sound; method behavior; copied head-smashing; elevated-horror label

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 00:52:31Read transcript
  • Charlie’s clicking sound remains disturbing, especially when a spouse imitates it and when it appears beside Peter in class. — Bill Simmons
  • Wolff’s performance is defended, but reportedly demanding to be called Peter until the last shooting day is criticized as inconsiderate method acting.
  • Collette’s reported comments describe Wolff as difficult and uncollaborative while praising the result; a Jeremy Strong tangent illustrates the same issue without dismissing Wolff’s career.
  • Sudden head-smashing has become overused in later horror, and the elevated-horror label is criticized as pretentious.
56:58

The Ruffalo / Hanna / Rubinek / Partridge Overacting Award

Toni Collette; Alex Wolff alternative

Toni Collette; Alex Wolff alternative

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:56:58Read transcript
  • Alex is initially considered; Toni gets the choice for going big, with Linda Partridge and Magnolia comparisons and a suggestion to add her name to the award.
57:17

Is There a Better Title for This Movie?

Retain Hereditary

Retain Hereditary

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:57:17Read transcript
  • Telephone Pole and Charlie’s Head are joked about, but the latter spoils the film and Hereditary is retained. — Bill Simmons
57:30

The Neil McCauley “A Book about Metals” Award for Best Line from the Movie

I never wanted to be your mother

I never wanted to be your mother

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 00:57:30Read transcript
  • I never wanted to be your mother is selected. — Bill Simmons
1:01:54

Casting What-Ifs

No firm alternatives; core cast attached early

No firm alternatives; core cast attached early

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:01:54Read transcript
  • No firm alternate casting is known; Collette, Byrne and Shapiro were reportedly attached early, with Shapiro’s stage accomplishments noted. — Bill Simmons
1:02:11

The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award

Kathleen Chalfant

Kathleen Chalfant

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:02:11Read transcript
1:02:25

The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance

Ann Dowd

Ann Dowd

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:02:25Read transcript
1:02:49

Recasting Couch

Lucas Hedges as Peter

Lucas Hedges as Peter

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:02:49Read transcript
1:03:13

What Would Tony Romo’s Director’s Commentary for This Movie Sound Like?

Doris Burke; Collinsworth; Ruocco; Breen; Cowherd

Doris Burke; Collinsworth; Ruocco; Breen; Cowherd

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:03:13Read transcript
  • Doris commentary addresses Miss Joni after decades preparing for King Paimon, removing Charlie and destroying the Graham family so he can take male form. — Chris Ryan
  • Collinsworth cautions against sticking a head outside a moving car; Ruocco’s Got It and Breen’s Bang are applied to the decapitation. — Chris Ryan
  • Cowherd-style analysis treats Paimon as the dominant executive who knows the salary cap. — Sean Fennessey
1:05:52

The Vincent Chase Award: Are We Sure This Character Is Actually Good at Their Job?

Steve, qualified by earlier protective instincts

Steve, qualified by earlier protective instincts

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:05:52Read transcript
  • Steve being a therapist while failing to address the family crisis would qualify him for Vincent Chase, though the earlier no-contact policy shows some good judgment.
1:06:44

Really Fun Deleted Scenes

Peter finds Annie asleep in the treehouse

Peter finds Annie asleep in the treehouse

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:06:44Read transcript
  • A deleted scene has Peter enter Charlie’s treehouse to sleep and discover Annie already there, increasing his fear of her. — Chris Ryan
1:07:53

Apex Mountain

Decapitations; Alex Wolff; self-beheading with piano wire; coffee before reporting a charred father (joke)

Decapitations; Alex Wolff; self-beheading with piano wire; coffee before reporting a charred father (joke)

In the discussion (8)
Approx. transcript time · 01:07:53Read transcript
  • A24 loses to Everything Everywhere All at Once. — Chris Ryan
  • Collette receives initial affirmative support but is disputed in favor of Little Miss Sunshine’s career impact, with her sustained work and Knives Out noted.
  • Nut allergies and fatal child reactions are proposed; Charlie’s death is compared with the child in Jaws and another child’s fatal bee reaction.
  • Decapitation scenes are accepted over examples from Ran and Black Rain; the pole death and audible piano-wire death compete as highlights.
  • Wolff is accepted; Byrne is rejected for his 1990s work, including The Usual Suspects and Miller’s Crossing.
  • Evil treehouses are proposed as an especially strong case.
  • The Good Son and Beetlejuice Beetlejuice supply treehouse alternatives; self-beheading with piano wire is accepted, while séances and Utah are rejected or unclear.
  • Making coffee after discovering a charred father before calling police is jokingly affirmed.
1:09:23

Probably Unanswerable Questions

Allergy or possession; cult’s timing; demon hierarchy; Paimon’s powers

Allergy or possession; cult’s timing; demon hierarchy; Paimon’s powers

In the discussion (6)
Approx. transcript time · 01:09:23Read transcript
  • Whether Charlie’s crisis is an ordinary allergy or Paimon directing events is debated; the marked pole and possible cult placement of the deer imply orchestrated fate.
  • Whether the family already has wealth from the grandmother’s pact is wondered about, leading to jokes about Paimon supplying investment and betting tips.
  • Whether Paimon returns to school or ever inhabited Annie during intimacy is debated; one reading limits her possession to the period after Steve’s death, another points to roaming blue light. — Sean Fennessey
  • The wisdom of séances and the eight kings’ hierarchy, territories, collaboration and place beneath Satan are left unanswered amid organizational jokes.
  • A possible omitted cult-sex scene is wondered about, with Midsommar offered as where Aster later explored that material.
  • Why the cult waited so long to transfer Paimon from Charlie to Peter is unanswered, with maturity offered as a guess. — Sean Fennessey
1:12:17

Cruise or Hanks?

Hanks as Steve

Hanks as Steve

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:12:17Read transcript
  • Hanks as Steve wins over young All the Right Moves-era Cruise as Peter, with an invited tiebreak response supporting Hanks. — Bill Simmons
1:13:12

Best Race Horse Name from This Movie

Hereditary; Paimon; Peter Paimon

Hereditary; Paimon; Peter Paimon

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:13:12Read transcript
  • Hereditary is preferred as a horse name; Paimon and Peter Paimon are alternatives, while Eight Kings of Hell is offered for a fantasy team.
1:13:47

Picking Nits

Uncontrolled weed; unknown Joan; family choices; bedroom locks; police absence

Uncontrolled weed; unknown Joan; family choices; bedroom locks; police absence

In the discussion (6)
Approx. transcript time · 01:13:47Read transcript
  • Peter’s heavy marijuana use seems unchecked and may cloud his judgment; whether the cult influences it or he supplies friends is speculative. — Chris Ryan
  • Annie failing to recognize her mother’s close friend Joan seems unlikely, though estrangement and secrecy offer an explanation.
  • Steve marrying and remaining with Annie despite extreme family history and alarming behavior is questioned; attraction and her artistic success are offered as comic explanations.
  • Sending thirteen-year-old Charlie to Peter’s high-school gathering seems questionable, with wanting children out of the house or supernatural influence offered as possibilities. — Bill Simmons
  • Peter should have multiple bedroom locks after the paint-thinner incident, prompting a mock home-improvement advertisement. — Bill Simmons
  • The apparent absence of police questioning, investigation and public reporting after a child’s violent death is questioned, especially given Peter’s intoxication and return to school. — Bill Simmons
1:19:38

Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake

Prestige series; Paimon’s reign; Pazuzu crossover joke

Prestige series; Paimon’s reign; Pazuzu crossover joke

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:19:38Read transcript
  • A prestige-series version is considered, but a sequel following Paimon’s reign inside Peter is particularly appealing despite lacking an obvious opposing family member.
  • A joking crossover would pit Paimon against The Exorcist’s Pazuzu. — Chris Ryan
1:21:36

Is This Movie Better With…?

Sam Jackson as teacher; Harling Mays as friend

Sam Jackson as teacher; Harling Mays as friend

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:21:36Read transcript
  • Samuel L. Jackson as the fate-discussing teacher is proposed.
  • Harling Mays as Peter’s friend offering the banana boat is another imagined addition. — Chris Ryan
1:23:55

The Andy and Red – Zihuatanejo Award for What Happens the Next Day?

Paimon returns to school; gardener finds bodies

Paimon returns to school; gardener finds bodies

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:23:55Read transcript
  • Paimon’s actual use of power and delivery of promised fortune is a desired continuation.
  • Paimon going to school and a gardener discovering the treehouse’s bodies are imagined consequences.
1:24:25

Best Double Feature

Rosemary’s Baby; The Exorcist III; The Ice Storm
In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:24:25Read transcript
  • The Ice Storm and The Exorcist III are suggestions, with Rosemary’s Baby the developed choice for similar frightening dark comedy; a Jets-game pairing is a joke. — Sean Fennessey
1:25:25

What Piece of Memorabilia Would You Want From This Movie?

Nothing; nose padding, miniatures, chalkboard and pole alternatives

Nothing; nose padding, miniatures, chalkboard and pole alternatives

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:25:25Read transcript
  • One response refuses every object; alternatives include Peter’s nose padding, miniatures, Joan’s chalkboard and the telephone pole as a Halloween decoration.
1:26:03

The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson

Carry EpiPen; leave danger; build a patient community

Carry EpiPen; leave danger; build a patient community

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:26:03Read transcript
  • Carry an EpiPen, leave after a parent’s dangerous incident and build a strong community; the cult’s patience and coordinated execution supply the cynical community example.
1:27:25

Who Won the Movie?

Ari Aster

Ari Aster

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:27:25Read transcript
  • Aster receives two explicit winner choices and a subsequent agreement; A24 is floated but considered already established, while Collette earns a shout-out. — Sean Fennessey
  • The film’s success is credited with financing Aster’s subsequent unusual projects, particularly Beau Is Afraid. — Sean Fennessey
Podcast choices
Speaker not identified
Ari Aster
Speaker not identified
Ari Aster
Speaker not identified
Ari Aster
1:28:05

Producer review

Intolerably horrifying; rejects this kind of horror

Intolerably horrifying; rejects this kind of horror

In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:28:05Read transcript
  • The invited first-time response finds the film intolerably horrifying, rejects the claim that it is funny and says films this disturbing should not be made; the reaction is explicitly personal taste. — Chris Ryan

More from the conversation

Opening chatter covers Gladiator II screenings, rental-versus-purchase pricing and physical-media convenience; flexible upgrade pricing is proposed as a joke take.
Approx. transcript time · 00:01:56Read transcript
Baseball and cold-medicine jokes precede the introduction of Hereditary as the next scary selection.
Approx. transcript time · 00:03:16Read transcript
The film is placed in the early Big Picture interview era and described as the show’s first A24 selection, marking a newer horror canon and changing distribution landscape.
Approx. transcript time · 00:05:18Read transcript
A24 horror and successful franchise revivals are contrasted with Blumhouse’s low-budget economics, leading into debate about prestige or trauma horror.
Approx. transcript time · 00:07:01Read transcript
Whether Hereditary is fundamentally a family drama with horror emerging or a thoroughly supernatural, gory cult film is disputed; elevated horror is criticized as a marketing label.
Approx. transcript time · 00:11:22Read transcript
Midsommar similarly remains visceral horror despite its sunny setting; reported Hereditary influences include family dramas and Don’t Look Now.
Approx. transcript time · 00:13:36Read transcript
Byrne’s screen presence signals unease, inspiring jokes about his marriage, Sea of Love and an angry-Bono imitation as a possible recurring voice.
Approx. transcript time · 00:15:02Read transcript
The distinction between Charlie’s body and Paimon’s possession is clarified: the discussion treats the demon as present throughout rather than arriving late.
Approx. transcript time · 00:20:01Read transcript
The grandmother’s failed plan for her son shifts toward Annie’s son, but estrangement prevents access; Charlie becomes the wrong-sex host before the intended transfer to her brother.
Approx. transcript time · 00:20:42Read transcript
Beheading as the means of releasing the spirit is proposed tentatively, supported by the bird, models and repeated decapitations; it is not presented as a verified rule.
Approx. transcript time · 00:21:50Read transcript
Inherited demons are read as depression, addiction or other family burdens, then compared jokingly with passing sports allegiances to children.
Approx. transcript time · 00:22:47Read transcript
Bargaining for sports victories is compared with a pact with dark forces, followed by disagreement about the Dodgers’ pandemic title.
Approx. transcript time · 00:24:06Read transcript
An attempted request for an angry Byrne imitation becomes a transition joke.
Approx. transcript time · 00:27:11Read transcript
A midnight festival screening is recalled alongside a frightening rear-end collision in an Uber afterward, leaving the viewer stranded on a highway and shaken on returning to the lodging.
Approx. transcript time · 00:33:01Read transcript
Family members’ repeat viewings are discussed, and the last forty minutes are identified as irresistible when encountered on television.
Approx. transcript time · 00:35:21Read transcript
A real suggestion to hold a séance at home is recalled and rejected; Ouija boards prompt jokes about demons welcoming willing victims.
Approx. transcript time · 00:39:19Read transcript
Needing coffee even after an awful discovery leads to a remembered stop for coffee during a spouse’s labor, mistakenly assumed to be another false alarm.
Approx. transcript time · 00:41:48Read transcript
Dislike of Longlegs leads to a proposed new comic commentary voice paired with Nell.
Approx. transcript time · 00:47:39Read transcript
Unexpectedly watching Lincoln at a sports bar leads to a sincere claim that it belongs on the show.
Approx. transcript time · 00:54:24Read transcript
Smile’s potential for a sports setting inspires a Russell Wilson possession joke.
Approx. transcript time · 01:01:13Read transcript
A basketball officiating tangent interrupts the transition to Apex Mountain.
Approx. transcript time · 01:07:19Read transcript
The inherited sports-curse analogy returns through an Aaron Rodgers joke.
Approx. transcript time · 01:10:23Read transcript
The delay is compared with developing a young quarterback, followed by coaching speculation.
Approx. transcript time · 01:26:54Read transcript
Whether a film can feel evil is discussed through The Exorcist and Hereditary’s ordinary medical, family and therapy scenes failing to contain dread.
Approx. transcript time · 01:29:30Read transcript
Horror taste is connected with childhood exposure and viewing conditions; whether modern realism will age differently is disputed.
Approx. transcript time · 01:30:36Read transcript
The enduring fear of The Exorcist, changing generational conventions and big-screen first viewings are compared with Blair Witch, ending in a shared-history joke.
Approx. transcript time · 01:32:19Read transcript
Craig’s producer credit is spoken with a Horlebeck transcription; scary month is explicitly said to conclude next week, establishing current participation.
Approx. transcript time · 01:33:58Read transcript