Ebert did not like the film and gave it one and a half stars, which the hosts call bonkers for a movie he seemingly should have liked.
He reportedly liked Cocktail more, called the film confusing and uninteresting, wrote that to the degree he understood it he did not care, and put it on his most-hated films list.
A host wonders whether Ebert had fatigue with Tarantino imitations full of guns and swearing and used this review to bury the genre.
The score surprises the hosts because Ebert normally likes well-structured characters and this is a very classical movie.

Most Rewatchable Scene

Final Palminteri-Spacey scene leading into the reveal

In the discussion (13)

Approx. transcript time · 00:32:04Read transcript

The first 17 minutes, introducing the characters through the roundup, lineup, interrogation and holding pen, are called an absolute masterclass.
On the lineup day the cast reportedly kept laughing because Benicio del Toro was farting, and Stephen Baldwin turns to the camera with his profane line about the keys, signalling that all bets are off.
Each actor seems to be in a different register: del Toro doing a voice, Pollak doing one-liners, Gabriel Byrne in a Eugene O'Neill play and Baldwin in a spaghetti western; Baldwin is joked to be chasing a future overacting award.
The interrogation-room scene is included, with Pollak's jail-shower line and the Queens exchange; Pollak is joked to be done setting picks for Tom Cruise.
The police heist is praised along with a proposed rule: more than one ambush makes a good movie, more than two heists a great movie, and more than three an immortal one.
Pouring accelerant on the car is the Reservoir Dogs moment, and the New York's Finest taxi service picking up the jeweler at LaGuardia makes the world feel real.
Redfoot's first scene is praised, with the hosts noting the actor arrived fresh off his Pulp Fiction role and joking about the conspicuous seaside meeting spot.
Kobayashi's first scene laying out Soze's demands is praised as an expository-character trope; his accent is hard to place, and although Verbal made up the name, the character exists because he picks Verbal up at the end.
The three-minute Keyser Soze origin story, in which he shoots his own family and lets one man go to tell the story, is one host's second-favorite scene.
In retrospect Soze's self-image resembles Glenn Danzig, a metalhead.
The boat shootout, with the no-coke line, and the man in the cell insisting Soze is there are called incredible.
One host picks the last Palminteri-Spacey scene leading into the ending, from the detective's condescension to the limp slowly disappearing; once the boat scene is on cable, he is in until the end.
The other host agrees it has to be the reveal, adding only the aborted Kobayashi hit at the office building as a runner-up.

Tom Arnold Award: Did the Second Guy Steal the Movie?

Benicio del Toro

The panel proposes a new category here.

In the discussion (5)

Approx. transcript time · 00:42:02Read transcript

A Who Stole the Movie category, long discussed as an alternative to the Waiters award and Who Won the Movie, is floated with Pollak, Baldwin, del Toro, Redfoot and others as candidates.
Benicio nearly gets out the door with the movie but dies too early; viewers are sad because they wanted him in the rest of the film.
One host narrows it to Baldwin or del Toro; del Toro is then chosen as the obvious star to emerge from a nothing part.
According to research, del Toro disliked the part because his character dies first, so he developed the mumble to stand out, and other actors often could not understand him in takes that were kept.
The casting is described as a Moneyball approach using slightly older actors; del Toro had been in The Indian Runner and was not yet famous.

What’s Aged the Best?

Accidental cigarette flick; poster; trailer marketing; Palminteri-Spacey scenes; reactions to Soze; the slow fax; Redfoot's crew

In the discussion (8)

Approx. transcript time · 00:44:23Read transcript

Redfoot flicking a cigarette into Baldwin's face was reportedly an accident, which explains Baldwin's reaction.
The poster is still great 25 years later.
The trailer, built on Spacey telling the Soze story without giving too much away, was masterful marketing that may not be replicable.
The roughly 35 minutes of Palminteri-Spacey scenes were shot first, in about a week, and play like a courtroom-drama play; Palminteri was the hottest name after A Bronx Tale, and his signing reportedly brought extra funding.
The reactions when Soze is first brought up, including "He's here" and Esposito's "no shit," hold up.
The fax slowly printing the suspect's face is a 90s trope, also in No Way Out, that texting has ended.
Soze's huge urine stream in the opening is left undecided between best and worst; it was reportedly thickened to tip off Verbal's gelatinous-urine line.
Redfoot's crew, with tucked-in t-shirts, fur-lined jean jackets and perms, is a best-or-worst item that lands on best.

What’s Aged the Worst?

Spacey and Singer; Baldwin's Confederate-flag outfit; first-viewing Soze guesses; Palminteri's hairpiece; Suzy Amis's French lunch scene

In the discussion (5)

Approx. transcript time · 00:49:07Read transcript

Spacey and Singer are named as not aging well, referring back to the opening discussion.
Baldwin wears a motorcycle jacket and a Confederate-flag soldier hat, called the worst outfit of the 90s.
One host's first-viewing guess was Kobayashi, then Gabriel Byrne; a modern remake would make it Edie.
Palminteri's hair is a wig or rug that now looks like Reynolds in Stroker Ace in close-ups.
After Keaton is arrested at lunch, the camera stays on Suzy Amis speaking French without subtitles for about 20 seconds, called a bad scene.

Casting What-Ifs

Declined first choice for McManus; Chris Walken or Bob De Niro in Palminteri's role; Al Pacino

In the discussion (8)

Approx. transcript time · 00:50:57Read transcript

Baldwin was the second choice for McManus; the first choice, Michael Biehn, reportedly turned it down and later called it a huge mistake.
With Biehn it would be a less funny movie, though one host has always loved him.
The script went to everybody in town; Palminteri's role was offered to Chris Walken and Bob De Niro, and Walken is imagined as Kobayashi or Redfoot.
Al Pacino came in to read, which the hosts find suspicious.
Singer and McQuarrie sent Spacey the script without saying which role was his; he assumed Palminteri's or Byrne's part, but it was written with him in mind for Verbal.
The hosts say Redfoot was offered to a list including Walken, Tommy Lee Jones, Bridges, Charlie Sheen, Spader, Pacino and Johnny Cash before Peter Greene got it, adding "who knows if it's true".
Byrne, dealing with personal problems, backed out for 24 hours until the filmmakers agreed to shoot in LA, where he lived, in five weeks.
A joke proposes making Redfoot the Voight character from Heat to connect the universes.

The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award

Police-heist driver

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 00:55:30Read transcript

Dan Hedaya is judged not a That Guy.
The driver in the police heist who says "you know who you're fucking with?", recognized from The Sopranos, is called an unbelievable That Guy; the hosts tentatively offer two actor names as a mid-90s pair.

The Ruffalo / Hanna / Rubinek / Partridge Overacting Award

Stephen Baldwin as McManus

In the discussion (1)

Approx. transcript time · 00:55:56Read transcript

The award goes to McManus for the lineup "give me the fucking keys" line, called an animal in that scene.

The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance

Peter Greene as Redfoot

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 00:56:54Read transcript

Giancarlo Esposito is floated and another cast member, garbled in the transcript as "peep pasta weight," is called eligible, but the award goes to Peter Greene as Redfoot, with his lines quoted.
Any movie like this from 1992 to 2010 needed Peter Greene; the hosts say personal problems, reportedly drugs according to the internet, kept him out of more movies.
Greene first impressed in Nick Gomez's Laws of Gravity with Edie Falco in 1992, and the hosts are surprised he was not in Heat.

Recasting Couch

No affirmative selection

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 00:58:54Read transcript

One host has never been a Suzy Amis fan and thinks Blown Away would have been better with anyone else; the other likes her.
One host proposes Laura Linney in Suzy Amis's role; the other pushes back that it is a thankless three-scene part that would waste Linney; Linney is noted as being in smaller movies back then, and the proposer says he knew the other would not like the pick.

Half-Assed Internet Research

Folders handed out in death order; Baldwin-Pollak feud

In the discussion (4)

Approx. transcript time · 00:59:38Read transcript

The folders Keaton hands out are distributed in the order the characters die.
A making-of documentary reveals a long-standing Baldwin-Pollak feud from the shoot; as the hosts relay it, by Pollak's account Baldwin stayed in character and bullied other actors, Byrne calls him a nut job on set but a fun one, and Baldwin admits trying to bully Pollak a little; neither will say what caused it.
Further searching found nothing more, and both hosts side with Pollak.
Pollak's 90s poker show with stand-up comics, his Dinner for Five appearances and podcasting are praised; aside from Spacey he may have had the cast's best 90s, with A Few Good Men, L.A. Story and Casino.

Apex Mountain

Turkish piss streams; Kevin Pollak; Stephen Baldwin; Chazz Palminteri; Peter Greene; Turkish crime lords; the limp; Baldwin brothers as a troika

In the discussion (10)

Approx. transcript time · 01:02:20Read transcript

Turkish piss streams: definitely at Apex.
Gabriel Byrne: no, his Apex is Miller's Crossing, plus marrying Ellen Barkin; one host has never been a fan and says he plays the same guy in every movie.
Kevin Pollak: yes, with A Few Good Men behind him, a hit, and talk-show popularity.
Stephen Baldwin: definitely, with Threesome recalled.
Del Toro: no. Palminteri: yes, because his juice got the movie funded. Spacey: no, despite an unbelievable 1995.
Peter Greene: yes, after Pulp Fiction in 1994 and this film in 1995, though his career then went the other way.
Turkish crime lords: none bigger; the Taken 2 villain is in the mix but does not top Kaiser.
The limp is proposed as the greatest limp ever filmed, and agreed.
Best twist in movie history is called impossible to say, with Chinatown still ahead.
The Baldwin brothers as a troika: Alec a near-top star after his Tom Clancy movie, Billy given every shot after Sliver, Flatliners and Backdraft, and Stephen's piece arriving with this film; both hosts agree.

Picking Nits

Detective missing Verbal; small-stakes crimes; beach body burial

In the discussion (4)

Approx. transcript time · 01:06:57Read transcript

The detective fixates on Keaton and never finds it suspicious that the one cripple survived the boat explosion without a mark, likened to a bad-job moment.
Soze described like a tall Glenn Danzig does not match Spacey, who is not cool like that; the other host counters that the mythology is a shield, so this nit is disputed.
Kobayashi's list of Soze's crimes, such as truck parts and a van in Buffalo, seems small-stakes for a $91 million cocaine guy.
The beach scene burying Fenster's body in the sand by the water is a weird scene.

The Neil McCauley “A Book about Metals” Award for Best Line from the Movie

"A rumor's not a rumor that doesn't die"; "How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?"; "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"; "They say it's raining in New York"; "Whoever's sleeping is your man"

In the discussion (6)

Approx. transcript time · 01:09:24Read transcript

"A rumor's not a rumor that doesn't die" is offered and called a good one.
The line about believing in God but fearing only Soze is quoted.
"How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?" is called a great one.
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist" is quoted.
McManus's reflective raining-in-New York line in the car before the boat job is a long-time favorite that stands out in a lean movie.
The detective's first-day lesson that whoever sleeps overnight in jail is the killer is also loved; a host wonders whether the detective should have had an Italian name.

Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake

Yes and no: everyone would know the twist, but on paper a six-episode limited series

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 01:12:32Read transcript

Yes and no: everyone would know the twist, but on paper it is a perfect six-episode BBC style limited series.
A twist in the finale, like The Night Of or Big Little Lies, would be amazing.

Probably Unanswerable Questions

Pollak's missing stardom; the detective's next day; Soze remarrying; Soze vs Neil McCauley; the boat plan

In the discussion (5)

Approx. transcript time · 01:12:58Read transcript

Why wasn't Kevin Pollak a bigger star? A bad job by his agent; he could have had a Caddyshack-type comedy.
The detective's next day at the office after blowing the case is imagined, including seeing his face at the fax and a reassignment to parking tickets.
Did Soze marry again? Probably not; he keeps no attachments.
Soze versus Neil McCauley is raised; a host built a greatest-teams chapter of his basketball book around the Soze mindset, and Marcus Smart is said to be in the Soze zone.
The boat plot is hard to follow; why not a simpler way to get the witness than a massive San Pedro gunfight? The reply is that it kills all his enemies at once, as a sociopath would.

Who Won the Movie?

Christopher McQuarrie

In the discussion (5)

Approx. transcript time · 01:15:30Read transcript

McQuarrie is picked because the film is now watched with different eyes, the script is a favorite, and he has gone on to great work.
Asked who it would have been in 2000 or 2015, the answer is probably Spacey.
For 20 years it was Spacey, whose 1995 with Seven and the Oscar was a Tommy Lee Jones moment, but now it is McQuarrie.
The other host agrees ("I think you're right") that it is McQuarrie; "Stephen Baldwin, in my heart" is added.
Baldwin is compared to the Starship Troopers lead who played it completely straight, carrying himself like the star though not one of the five biggest.

Podcast choices

Speaker not identified: Christopher McQuarrie
Speaker not identified: Christopher McQuarrie

More from the conversation

A trailer-style cold open plays the film's marketing lines after the ads.

Approx. transcript time · 00:00:55Read transcript

The episode marks the film's 25th anniversary; it is called one of the most influential 90s movies but has faded over the last five years.

Approx. transcript time · 00:01:25Read transcript

The hosts attribute the fading to director Bryan Singer, about whom they say much bad material can be found online, and to Kevin Spacey, whom they describe as one of the first people canceled and no longer really acting.

Approx. transcript time · 00:02:22Read transcript

Distinguishes cancel culture from reckoning with the legacy of a work and its artists, noting that reverent discussion can be seen as ignoring the trespasses and alleged crimes that Spacey and Singer committed or are accused of committing.

Approx. transcript time · 00:02:46Read transcript

Whether a movie can be enjoyed despite the people who made it is compared to sports fans weighing a talented player with a troubling past; Michael Vick is cited as a case that ended in a good place.

Approx. transcript time · 00:03:32Read transcript

On-screen content also needs context: Nicholson hitting Faye Dunaway in Chinatown and Paul Newman punching Charlotte Rampling in The Verdict, called the greatest Boston movie, are now hard to watch.

Approx. transcript time · 00:05:10Read transcript

A Game of Thrones social-media backlash is cited as a contrasting case; this film is simply a great movie.

Approx. transcript time · 00:06:25Read transcript

On this rewatch Spacey stayed in the back of one host's mind, and the other thought of Singer at every well-crafted shot, suggesting praise be spread to the editing, cinematography, score and screenplay.

Approx. transcript time · 00:06:56Read transcript

It was a first rewatch since the most recent Singer reporting in The Atlantic; Spacey appearing in films like Margin Call raises the same art-versus-artist question.

Approx. transcript time · 00:07:46Read transcript

Polanski is cited as an early example; that Oscars year Mel Gibson also won for Braveheart, and the hosts say both films air less now, though this one was on Amazon.

Approx. transcript time · 00:08:30Read transcript

The film must be judged in its mid-90s context, like David Thompson's late-70s athleticism; it is called an OG of the era of Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs, Boogie Nights, Clerks and Mallrats, with name actors taking pay cuts.

Approx. transcript time · 00:09:12Read transcript

A crime-movie weight-class ranking puts the Godfather films, Heat, Goodfellas and Pulp Fiction as heavyweights, Den of Thieves, Lock Stock and Point Break as lightweights, and this film as a possible middleweight champion against Drive, Reservoir Dogs and Out of Sight.

Approx. transcript time · 00:10:39Read transcript

The summer 1995 "Who is Keyser Soze?" campaign and the five-man poster built buzz; Singer and McQuarrie were hot after Public Access.

Approx. transcript time · 00:11:38Read transcript

The Reservoir Dogs blueprint of a hip, tough-talking script, recognizable faces at a low price and profit participation is described, citing Things to Do in Denver When You're Dead; the title reportedly came from a magazine, leading to the police-lineup idea.

Approx. transcript time · 00:12:57Read transcript

The episode spoils the twist, which is called impossible in 2020; Blair Witch and Sixth Sense in 1999 are the cutoff, with Gone Girl and Us this decade's twist films.

Approx. transcript time · 00:14:07Read transcript

Greatest twists listed: Sixth Sense, Crying Game, Chinatown, Psycho, Gone Girl, Us, Empire Strikes Back, Seven, Primal Fear, Fight Club and Memento; this is the best version because it sets up Gabriel Byrne as Soze, then adds the long coffee shot and the reveal.

Approx. transcript time · 00:14:59Read transcript

The flair of delivering the twist puts it alongside Primal Fear.

Approx. transcript time · 00:16:50Read transcript

In Primal Fear the clapping for Richard Gere sells the twist; this film's extra panache, the montage and voiceover, was reportedly found in the editing room.

Approx. transcript time · 00:17:14Read transcript

A host recounts spoiling the twist for his friend Jacko, about 12 drinks in, days before Jacko planned to see it.

Approx. transcript time · 00:17:39Read transcript

You only watch it unaware once, yet it rewards 20 rewatches; one host forgets every time that Spacey is Soze, Spacey is reportedly the next shot whenever Soze is mentioned, and Singer described it as Double Indemnity meets Rashomon.

Approx. transcript time · 00:18:42Read transcript

Spacey had bounced around in character parts in Glengarry Glen Ross, The Ref and Wiseguy as an arms dealer before 1995 made him a star with Seven and this film.

Approx. transcript time · 00:21:16Read transcript

Six actors have won both lead and supporting Oscars: Nicholson, Denzel, Jack Lemmon, De Niro, Gene Hackman and Spacey; Spacey beat James Cromwell, Ed Harris, Brad Pitt and Tim Roth, and no Heat actor was nominated.

Approx. transcript time · 00:21:55Read transcript

Spacey is described as alternately creepy and intense; he wanted Jack Lemmon's career but lacked Lemmon's warmth, which led to parts like House of Cards and American Beauty, and he never figured out comedy.

Approx. transcript time · 00:23:18Read transcript

None of the actors knew who Soze would be; per Spacey on the Colbert Report in 2005, Gabriel Byrne was so upset at the screening that he stormed off to the parking lot.

Approx. transcript time · 00:26:15Read transcript

Christopher McQuarrie won the original screenplay Oscar, went on to the Mission Impossible movies and is praised as a screenwriting ambassador; writers rarely get enough credit, a Goldman theme, and this screenplay's dialogue and structure are praised though some moments were improvised.

Approx. transcript time · 00:27:00Read transcript

The most recent Mission Impossible is called his best work since this film and is planned as a future rewatchable; McQuarrie is joked to have become a visual blockbuster filmmaker.

Approx. transcript time · 00:28:33Read transcript

The film had a $6 million budget and made $34 million, then had about a 15-year cable run before fading in the early 2010s.

Approx. transcript time · 00:30:24Read transcript

Stephen Baldwin was briefly a favorite Baldwin brother coming out of this film; Alec is generally preferred and Billy was always third.

Approx. transcript time · 00:56:24Read transcript

Closing: the hosts call it an important movie, thank Spotify and Chris Ryan, and say the show goes weekly during football season with more 1995 anniversary movies coming.

Approx. transcript time · 01:17:41Read transcript