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Argo

year 2012decade 10sdirector Ben Affleckgenre Historical dramagenre Political thriller

120 minutes

Cast

Selected cast credits · Film reference

Ben Affleck Tony Mendez
Bryan Cranston Jack O'Donnell
Alan Arkin Lester Siegel
John Goodman John Chambers
Victor Garber Ken Taylor
Tate Donovan Bob Anders
Clea DuVall Cora Lijek
Scoot McNairy Joe Stafford
Rory Cochrane Lee Schatz
Christopher Denham Mark Lijek
Kerry Bishé Kathy Stafford
Kyle Chandler Hamilton Jordan
Chris Messina Malinov
Željko Ivanek Robert Pender
Titus Welliver Jon Bates
Bob Gunton Cyrus Vance
Philip Baker Hall Stansfield Turner
Richard Kind Max Klein
Taylor Schilling Christine Mendez
Richard Dillane Nicholls
Sheila Vand Sahar

Argo | The Rewatchables

host Bill Simmonshost Chris Ryanproducer Craig Horlbeck
Explore episodeClose episode

Casting What-Ifs

In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 00:17:03Read transcript
  • The hosts recount that the project began with Clooney's company winning the bidding war for a 2007 Wired article, and that Clooney planned to write, direct and play Tony Mendez before Affleck got involved.
  • The Mendez role would have seemed perfect for Clooney.
  • The hosts found no casting what-ifs beyond the Clooney history.

Roger Ebert's review

In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 00:28:48Read transcript
  • The hosts read that Ebert gave Argo four stars, calling it the real movie about the fake movie, both spellbinding and surprisingly funny.
  • He chose it as the best film of the year, which the hosts note was his last such pick because he died in 2013.

Most Rewatchable Scene

Rescue-plan presentation; airport through the celebration montage

In the discussion (16)
Approx. transcript time · 00:31:10Read transcript
  • The storming of the U.S. embassy is the first nominee, an electric eight-minute scene: the dartboard with the Ayatollah picture, the Marine commander going out to reason and being grabbed, and the order not to shoot anyone or start World War III while they burn the classified material.
  • The opening establishes each of the six, with Tate Donovan leading but an airhead and Scoot as the locker-room guy questioning the coach; small details include a captor taking a woman's glasses.
  • The frantic destruction of equipment recalls a Grantland one-hour evacuation plan near the end of the ESPN era that was never executed.
  • Mendez shooting down every rescue plan, such as bicycles 300 miles to the Turkish border with a tire pump, is the next nominee; it is compared to Chuck Kosterman calmly rejecting pitches at Grantland, and the scene is full of that-guy actors like Titus Welliver.
  • Goodman listening to the plan and the "associate producer at best" exchange lead into meeting Arkin, who is basically playing Alan Arkin with lines like the one about counting the wrinkles on his dog's balls.
  • Arkin was nominated essentially for playing himself; once Goodman and Arkin arrive, the film gains levity, comedy and sunlit Hollywood scenes.
  • Arkin buys the script from Richard Kind for $10,000 after the Warren Beatty and unionizing Zulu extras story.
  • Mendez meeting the Canadian six ("I get people out"), Scoot's "bad cards" speech and the intense bazaar scouting trip are singled out.
  • Affleck drilling everyone on their cover stories before the airport is praised as hard, tough-love coaching.
  • The hosts relate that Led Zeppelin allowed When the Levee Breaks but required the needle to sit near the end of the album side, matching the song's real position, so the shot was redone.
  • The song is called perfect for the night before the escape while things fall apart back home.
  • The last-minute ticket scramble with Cranston and the airport checks start the last 20 minutes, called the best part of the film, up to the announcement that alcohol can be served after clearing Iranian airspace.
  • Scoot explaining the movie premise to the angry guard, the call to Arkin and Goodman and the takeoff are listed.
  • The celebration montage is a favorite and covers the whole spectrum of celebrations, from Cranston's dry crying and Scoot's handshake to Messina's premature celebration and Arkin and Goodman dancing.
  • Asked for a final pick, one participant chooses the presentation of all the different escape plans.
  • The other pick is the stretch from the airport to the celebration montage, the part that led to watching the film over and over.

What’s Aged the Best?

Alan Arkin and John Goodman; Affleck's hair; movie-business in-jokes; the Intelligence Star; the 1979 Iran feel; the heightened escape day; opening credits; soundtrack; Scoot McNairy; 70s thriller vibe and ensembles

In the discussion (16)
Approx. transcript time · 00:43:07Read transcript
  • Goodman and Arkin end the category; the casting is a 15 out of 10, and once the right people are cast there is little left to do.
  • The six were cast without star power, chosen to resemble the real people shown in the closing credits, while the stars went to Affleck, Arkin, Goodman and the government roles.
  • Goodman has one of the strangest filmographies, working constantly across hits and misses, and is best in dramas where he provides comic relief.
  • Affleck's hair continues to delight.
  • The movie-business in-jokes, such as the WGA line, hold up.
  • The Intelligence Star, an award with no ceremony that must be handed back immediately, is a favorite concept and is joked about as a Ringer podcast award for 2021.
  • Affleck breaks out his Good Will Hunting wistful half-smile when receiving the Intelligence Star.
  • It is unclear where the Iran scenes were shot, but the film feels like 1979, helped by cutting in news footage.
  • The decision to make the escape day far more tense holds up, though think pieces say the real departure was easy.
  • The hosts say Affleck was upfront about taking liberties and that the bazaar confrontation and the plane chase did not happen, and Zero Dark Thirty drew more trouble by presenting itself as closer to documentary.
  • Movies based on a true story should be watched for the story, not history; even Spotlight changed things, and the hosts say Arkin's character is a merger of real people.
  • The opening credit sequence and a soundtrack of four bangers, including Dance the Night Away and When the Levee Breaks, are praised despite a song that came out too late.
  • Song-year accuracy matters only if a film goes all in; still, the anachronistic song made one host think it was 1982.
  • Scoot McDerry is incredible as the only real foil to Affleck, though the constant doubting invites a shut-up.
  • His career is judged worse than it should have been; he could have had a Gandolfini-style leading turn, and his name may have hurt him.
  • The 70s political-thriller vibe and the stacked ensembles, from Titus Wellever and Kyle Chandler to Scoot McNary, Tate Donovan and Cleo Duval, add up to 15 good people.

What’s Aged the Worst?

Affleck's wig-like hair; the Iranian characters; the casting controversy; the invented Lester Siegel; Canada's minimized role; the late song; the multiple endings

In the discussion (11)
Approx. transcript time · 00:55:18Read transcript
  • Affleck's hair, also listed as aged best, is terrible and presumed to be a wig.
  • At first viewing one host mistook Scoot for C. Thomas Howell for the first 20 minutes.
  • Every Iranian character is angry and screaming, a simplistic and not-so-veiled racist view; only the housekeeper shows a conscience.
  • There was an early controversy over Affleck taking the part because Mendez was, the hosts think, half Mexican; Mendez gave his blessing, and the outcry would be bigger in 2021.
  • The hosts note Lester Siegel is not a real person.
  • The hosts report the film has been criticized for minimizing the Canadian embassy's role, falsely showing the New Zealand and British embassies turning Americans away, and exaggerating the escape day; Maclean's said it rewrites history at Canada's expense.
  • The hosts say Garber's Ken Taylor is supposedly the real hero and that Mendez was in Iran only a day and a half; Affleck is quoted admitting the portrayal of Britain and New Zealand was not totally fair.
  • The hosts quote Jimmy Carter saying 90% of the contribution was Canadian and that Ken Taylor was the main hero.
  • The hosts say Carter only briefly pulled the tickets before Mendez reached Iran and that Taylor received a Congressional Gold Medal from Reagan, yet the film gives Garber only a couple of scenes.
  • The song arriving a year late is called unacceptable in jest.
  • The Spielberg-style endings drag on through Cranston, the house, the flag hug, the bedside reading and title cards; it should have ended with the plane handshake and celebration montage.

The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award

In the discussion (6)
Approx. transcript time · 01:00:14Read transcript
  • The field is an all-star team; Victor Garber is ruled out because people know him as Garber from Alias and Sicario.
  • Bob Gunton is too big after Shawshank.
  • Rory Cochran, the stoned guy with long hair in Days and Confused, now looks so different he is hard to recognize, but their generation knows him.
  • Zelko Ivonic is too big from 24, Oz and School Ties.
  • Christopher Denham, who plays Mark among the six and later a fixer on Billions, wins; his name was only learned through research.
  • The pick is affirmed; Richard Kind is the only other option but is too well known.

The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 01:03:25Read transcript
  • Goodman, Arkin and Cranston are ruled eligible at under 15 minutes of screen time, while the Argo Six are in too much of the movie.
  • Titus Welliver, Kyle Chandler and Philip Baker Hall's uncredited cameo are also eligible.
  • Ali Saam as the man piecing together the six's photos and the British officer in Turkey are also liked.
  • Arkin's Oscar nomination raises whether he can qualify; the rule is broken and the award goes to Arkin and Goodman together as a team.

Recasting Couch

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 01:04:53Read transcript
  • Damon, Casey Affleck and Cole Houser could all have been among the Argo Six regardless of resemblance: Casey Affleck in Denham's spot, Houser with a goofy mustache, and Damon while keeping Scoot McNary.
  • A sarcastic reply asks why not add Walberg and DiCaprio and the whole Departing cast.
  • The idea was about the Good Will Hunting crew; at minimum Casey Affleck should have been slid in as one of the six. — Bill Simmons
  • Asked "are you with me on that recasting couch," the answer is yes, it is very fun.

Half-Assed Internet Research

Studio Six scripts; CIA involvement; Iranian bootlegs; Carter's short delay; invented chase; actors in character; Jack Kirby; Sunset Gower offices

In the discussion (7)
Approx. transcript time · 01:06:04Read transcript
  • The hosts cite Mendez saying the fake Studio Six was so convincing that 26 scripts arrived after it folded, including one from Steven Spielberg.
  • The hosts cite a 2016 Vice report, based on Freedom of Information Act research, that the CIA was involved in the production of Argo and Zero Dark 30.
  • The hosts report that several hundred thousand bootleg copies circulated in Iran, watched out of hate, curiosity and quiet protest.
  • The hosts report that Carter only delayed authorization by 30 minutes, well before Mendez left for Europe, and that the chase sequence never happened.
  • The hosts report that Affleck had the six actors dress and hang out in character for a week to build chemistry.
  • The hosts note that Jack Kirby, who made the storyboards, was a comics pioneer.
  • The hosts cite the original Wired article placing the Studio Six offices at Sunset Gower, in Michael Douglas's vacated China Syndrome offices.

Apex Mountain

Ben Affleck; Scoot McNairy; Iran hostage crisis movies and TV; the other five of the Argo Six; Bryan Cranston

In the discussion (10)
Approx. transcript time · 01:08:54Read transcript
  • Affleck is a yes: the Oscar, the sympathetic narrative, a Fincher movie next and Batman after Gone Baby Gone and The Town.
  • Scoot McNary is probably a yes.
  • Arkin is a no because of Little Miss Sunshine.
  • Goodman is a no.
  • Movies or TV shows about the Iran hostage crisis get a yes, with probably no others.
  • The other five of the Argo Six get a yes.
  • Tate Donovan's own Apex is floated as Friends before settling on season one of The O.C.
  • Cranston first gets a no for Breaking Bad, then a yes on the argument that Breaking Bad is surging toward its finale while he establishes himself in movies.
  • The CIA is joked about as making a comeback after killing JFK, but no explicit Apex yes is given.
  • Whether this is the Apex for exfils is asked but drifts into Proof of Life and Predator without an answer; exfiltration is defined.

Picking Nits

Mendez's height; Swissair chase questions; underdeveloped housekeeper; Nightline underused; missing 1979 All-Star Game

In the discussion (6)
Approx. transcript time · 01:13:06Read transcript
  • The hosts say the real Mendez was 5'7" and not a supermodel, while a 6'4" handsome Affleck would have been a red flag in Iran.
  • The Swissair pilot should have noticed the cars, and the plane could have been radioed or shot at; the counter is that Iran did not want an international incident.
  • The housekeeper subplot feels tacked on: she needed a scene showing her connection to the six to explain covering for them, though the film favors forward momentum.
  • A pitch to handle the exfil like the unseen Lufthansa heist in Goodfellas is declined in favor of the existing inaccurate version.
  • Nightline should have been on in the background more often.
  • The 79 baseball all-star game and Dave Parker's throw from right field should have been worked in.

Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake

Would work as a Netflix series; movie still preferred

In the discussion (4)
Approx. transcript time · 01:17:13Read transcript
  • It would have been an amazing Netflix show with this cast and more time, though the movie is still preferred.
  • The embassy takeover would come in episode two or three, like a Homeland season.
  • A whole episode could cover the politics, from the Kyle Chandler flags line to the Ted Kennedy primary, Carter's re-election and Hamilton Jordan.
  • A series version is expected within 10 years.

Probably Unanswerable Questions

Clooney, Casey Affleck or Damon as Mendez; a 2021 Mendez casting; which of the six you would be; learning a cover identity in 30 hours

In the discussion (7)
Approx. transcript time · 01:18:24Read transcript
  • The movie is not better with George Clooney as Mendez; Affleck is really good.
  • Casey Affleck did not seem old enough in 2012.
  • Damon as Mendez is also a no.
  • A 2021 version would likely cast Mendez according to his ethnic background.
  • Which of the six would you be: Scoot questioning everything and smoking, Tate Donovan with too much Zeppelin and scotch, or Cleo Duval?
  • One answer would demand to know why Mendez used a fake name and ask about his past missions, likened to a David Kahn joke; the other would ask him to share more about himself.
  • Learning a new identity would be crammed the night before, with jokes about the all-star game and When the Levee Breaks on repeat.

More from the conversation

The show notes it is now in the 200s, followed by an Argo trailer cold open.
Approx. transcript time · 00:01:18Read transcript
The hosts recall covering Argo extensively at Grantland in 2012; Zach Barron wrote its Argo review and Wesley was writing about the 2013 Oscars.
Approx. transcript time · 00:02:20Read transcript
Affleck missing a Best Director nomination became the narrative that helped the film win Best Picture, completing his comeback.
Approx. transcript time · 00:03:16Read transcript
Gone Baby Gone, The Town and Argo are framed as proof Affleck is a real filmmaker, but he has only directed Live by Night since.
Approx. transcript time · 00:03:40Read transcript
Winning Best Picture may have dimmed Argo's rewatchable reputation; it is closer to Ocean's Eleven than The Master.
Approx. transcript time · 00:04:52Read transcript
Studios no longer make this kind of movie, so a future Affleck film would likely be for a streamer.
Approx. transcript time · 00:05:59Read transcript
Spotlight got more attention thanks to a strong Netflix run and the Ruffalo speech; Argo resurfaced through an HBO and Cinemax rewatch.
Approx. transcript time · 00:06:14Read transcript
Argo is a throwback to 1970s distrust-of-Washington films such as Three Days of the Condor and Capricorn 1, with Affleck aping Gordon Willis photography.
Approx. transcript time · 00:07:21Read transcript
Unlike those films, Argo's hero is a CIA agent even as his own government trips him up; historical accuracy is flagged for later.
Approx. transcript time · 00:08:12Read transcript
Wesley Morris's 2012 Boston Globe review is quoted calling Affleck the first actor since Warren Beatty's generation to make a persuasive case as a Hollywood filmmaker.
Approx. transcript time · 00:08:32Read transcript
Affleck became too famous again after Gone Girl and Batman; the Warren Beatty comparison fits, and his Town and Argo performances are far more muted than Armageddon-era roles.
Approx. transcript time · 00:09:05Read transcript
The film stays suspenseful throughout, with opening credits that explain the Shah and the crisis in about three minutes before the embassy storming.
Approx. transcript time · 00:11:28Read transcript
Affleck makes three movies in one, a Washington spy movie, a Hollywood movie with Arkin and Goodman called the best part, and a Tehran movie, each with its own ensemble.
Approx. transcript time · 00:12:45Read transcript
The worst part is the film having four endings; the Taylor Schilling reunion in front of the flag would have been cut.
Approx. transcript time · 00:13:23Read transcript
The hosts say Argo was the first Best Picture winner in 23 years without a director nomination, after Driving Miss Daisy, and the first since Grand Hotel in 1932 without a director or lead-acting nomination; the nominee field and shifting frontrunners are reviewed.
Approx. transcript time · 00:14:06Read transcript
Argo had the snub, old-school Hollywood appeal and inside-Hollywood jokes working for it.
Approx. transcript time · 00:15:51Read transcript
The Best Director field is reviewed, including Ang Lee's win, Spielberg and David O. Russell; Paul Thomas Anderson and The Master were snubbed.
Approx. transcript time · 00:16:16Read transcript
The hosts note Arkin was nominated for Best Supporting Actor and lost to Christoph Waltz in a loaded category.
Approx. transcript time · 00:16:33Read transcript
The hosts say a Wired article, The Great Escape, started the project and that Chris Terrio's script landed on the Black List, they think in 2010, before Affleck joined.
Approx. transcript time · 00:17:03Read transcript
Clooney is always Clooney and would have read as Danny Ocean, while Denzel finds variations of himself in films like Flight and He Got Game.
Approx. transcript time · 00:18:28Read transcript
Affleck's muted Mendez drew criticism, but he gives himself only a couple of flashy scenes and leaves the big moments to Arkin, Goodman, Scoot and Kyle Chandler.
Approx. transcript time · 00:20:06Read transcript
Affleck's hair and beard make him look like a backup third baseman for the '81 Pirates.
Approx. transcript time · 00:21:31Read transcript
The hosts say the film got seven nominations, won Best Picture, Adapted Screenplay and Film Editing, and made $232.3 million on a $44.5 million budget.
Approx. transcript time · 00:22:32Read transcript
One host describes the Iran hostage crisis as a defining childhood story that led the news, spawned Nightline and made him feel unsafe for the first time.
Approx. transcript time · 00:22:32Read transcript
One host recalls his mother's friend in 1980 dating an Iranian man who pretended to be from elsewhere because of anti-Iranian animosity.
Approx. transcript time · 00:24:59Read transcript
One host does not remember the six escapees from the time; 'based on a true story' does a lot of work here, and the failed helicopter rescue attempt is suggested reading.
Approx. transcript time · 00:26:15Read transcript
Newsy post-crisis thrillers like Missing, The Falcon and the Snowman and Silkwood are recalled; the hostage crisis never got its movie until Argo.
Approx. transcript time · 00:27:27Read transcript
The hosts cite a 96% Rotten Tomatoes score.
Approx. transcript time · 00:28:12Read transcript
Led Zeppelin song-rights stories are pitched as a narrative podcast idea, including Almost Famous failing to get Stairway to Heaven and its Stairway deleted scene.
Approx. transcript time · 00:38:59Read transcript
A redo of Good Will Hunting is floated now that the show is in the 200s.
Approx. transcript time · 00:46:23Read transcript
JFK is described as the ultimate loosely based true story and is scheduled for later in the year.
Approx. transcript time · 00:49:22Read transcript
Arkin's standing is discussed: younger viewers know him from Argo and Little Miss Sunshine, The In-Laws is a cult comedy, and his later career found its comic groove.
Approx. transcript time · 01:21:57Read transcript
21 Bridges is pitched as a made-to-be-rewatched movie, with Taylor Kitch's performance called afterburners Dion Waiters.
Approx. transcript time · 01:22:57Read transcript
At recording, the hosts say Argo had moved to Amazon Prime after an HBO Max run, and that streaming runs can unlock a movie.
Approx. transcript time · 01:23:48Read transcript