Ebert gave the movie three and a half stars.
He was described as fired up about it, calling it a realistic depiction of small-town life, and as a big sports movie guy.

Most Rewatchable Scene

Elmo's Pele speech

In the discussion (20)

Approx. transcript time · 00:22:17Read transcript

Loudon beating Cooch to make 178 cuts into Journey's "Only the Young", called not a top-five Journey song but in the top-ten discussion.
The state champion carrying the log up the steps is rewound often; the hosts say it was cold that day and glycerin was used to fake sweat.
Loudon watches the champion pin a man in 10 seconds while dictating notes into a tape recorder like Roger Sterling, joked to have been stolen.
The champion is mysterious rather than a villain, presented like the shark in Jaws, with the Jaws theme played as he stalks the mat.
Loudon climbing the pegboard wall to John Waite's "Change" after the big teammate says he is not a team player is the next rewatchable scene.
A bit imagines a pegboard at the Ringer's Gower Studios courtyard that a host climbs to win the right to book Michelle Obama.
Loudon losing to Lewis Smith by medical default over his bloody nose is listed, with a joke about the movie's character names and disagreement with stopping the match.
There is little wrestling technique shown, so it is unclear how good Loudon is beyond losing weight; another participant says Modine is clearly an athlete.
Modine's lat pull-down form is called the worst in history, setting the exercise back a decade, with an anecdote about a father doing it wrong.
Hollywood always botches weightlifting, such as prison gangs repping light weight; the fix would be a consultant swapping pink 20s for black 40s.
Elmo's Pele story is recounted: watching Pele score upside down on a Mexican channel, crying alone, and a human being lifting the rest of us up for a minute.
A sports movie needs a chill scene, a requirement from an old 30 best sports movies column; this speech gets you ready for the match.
The speech evokes an era of limited access to global sports, and "it's not the six minutes, it's what happens in the six minutes" is called one of the most dramatic lines in movies.
The setting is perfect: the hotel chef who is more of a father than Loudon's father, toilet paper on his shaving cut, beer cans in the back, and calling in sick to watch; it is called the best scene of the movie.
The speech belongs to a tradition from The Longest Yard through Rocky and Victory; such speeches are hard to write in character, unlike Billy Bob Thornton's in Friday Night Lights, but this one fits Elmo.
The movie often moves too fast, such as Loudon sniffing Carla's panties; The Way Back's trailer speech is cited as a current chill moment.
Pacino in Any Given Sunday is called the best version; a Mount Rushmore of sports movie speeches has Pacino, Reynolds in The Longest Yard and this one, with the fourth undecided.
Carla returning to the locker room before the match ("Hey Loudon, kick his ass"), Lunatic Fringe and the jump rope lead into a great final match.
The speech (transcribed "the almost speech") is named the most rewatchable scene, with an agreeing reply that is also partial to the "Change" pegboard scene.
An alternate pick is the drive to the grandfather's cabin, with a truck that tops out at 31 mph, a campout and Loudon's nocturnal-emissions talk.

What’s Aged the Best?

The title spoken in dialogue; early Madonna; the soundtrack; jogging scenes and Spokane skyline shots; the supporting cast; 80s locales

In the discussion (8)

Approx. transcript time · 00:41:17Read transcript

Cooch telling Loudon he is on a vision quest, trying to find his place in the circle, is loved for weaving the title into dialogue, like Shawshank and Heat.
Early Madonna: producers worked her in, she became a huge star, and the marketing leaned on her; the Crazy for You video was Vision Quest footage played constantly on MTV.
Crazy for You is said to have overshadowed Gambler.
The soundtrack has Journey, Madonna, John Waite, Speedwagon, Foreigner, Sammy Hagar, Quarterflash, Red Rider and Berlin plus a Tangerine Dream score, perhaps the highest batting average of any mid-80s soundtrack; overseas the movie was said to be called The Crazy for You movie.
The jogging scenes and wide shots of the Spokane skyline, mountains and bridge hold up, though the bridge is overused.
The cast holds up, including Daphne coming off The Sure Thing, who is called the one he should have dated.
More cast: Harold Sylvester, Cooch as the hunk from 16 Candles, and Ronnie Cox with a great 80s IMDb run.
The 80s locales hold up, including the supermarket with falling Tide boxes and an accurate-looking 80s high school.

Carla's route from Trenton to San Francisco via Spokane; Carla's wardrobe; a tournament ending at 178; the final-match scoring; little visible weight loss; scattered supporters at the final; Elmo smoking in the gym; a pop star in a Spokane bar

In the discussion (8)

Approx. transcript time · 00:43:06Read transcript

A talented pop singer playing a Spokane sports bar is overqualified, and the bar does not seem to check IDs.
Driving or hitchhiking from Trenton to San Francisco would never pass through Spokane; the route was mapped at 31 to 33 hours.
Carla never wears the same outfit twice despite hitchhiking, raising how many suitcases she has.
The tournament oddly ends with the 178 weight class.
The championship scoring jumps from 9-9 to 13-9 with points unseen; another participant thought the takedown and scoreboard added up, and a penalty point is floated.
A producer's nitpick asks whether it would be better if he had to gain weight; it is felt that Modine does not visibly lose the weight, which could have been hidden with baggy clothes.
At the final match his supporters are scattered across sections, with many cutaways.
Elmo shoves a woman and lights a cigarette in a high school gym, compared with Elizabeth Perkins smoking everywhere in Big.

What’s Aged the Worst?

The Loudon and Carla basement scene; gay-panic undertones

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 00:48:49Read transcript

The Loudon and Carla basement scene, mentioned earlier, is called horrible.
There are gay-panic undertones, the second straight 80s movie they have done that opens with a homophobic scene, possibly framed as teenage hormones; pieces have been written about it.

Casting What-Ifs

No affirmative selection

In the discussion (2)

Approx. transcript time · 00:49:22Read transcript

No real casting alternatives turned up in research.
A garbled joke offers Michael J. Fox in a role, with a "don't call him chicken" riff.

Recasting Couch

Cast left unchanged

In the discussion (5)

Approx. transcript time · 00:49:37Read transcript

All the actors were liked and none would be changed.
Cruise (transcribed "Cruz") would have been an interesting Loudon but would not pull off the horny part, with a joking question about his height.
Improvement is visible over the shoot in the house guest's performance, rough at first since it was her first movie and more believable by the end.
A proposal to merge the Madonna singer role and the house guest into one character is retracted after learning the house guest wants to be a painter, then revived as a two-for-one.
The car-lot fight over a lemon that brings the character to the house is hard to follow and needed a rewind.

The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award

Harold Sylvester

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 00:52:50Read transcript

Harold Sylvester has an incredible IMDb run: D.C. in Fast Break, an NBA star in Inside Moves, Hill Street Blues and An Officer and a Gentleman.
He is called the Omar Epps of his generation, and he clearly played basketball.
Fast Break is called the most politically incorrect sports movie ever; one participant has not seen it and is urged to watch it this week.

The Ruffalo / Hanna / Rubinek / Partridge Overacting Award

Daphne Zuniga; Cooch's abusive father

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 00:54:57Read transcript

Zuniga (transcribed "Zaniga") is offered as one participant's own pick ("I got Zaniga here").
A second pick ("I had") is Cooch's abusive dad, played by the Major League manager, who dials it up, slapping Cooch, who then admits his Native American act is fake and he is German.
The award is left between those two ("So one of those two"); no co-winners are declared.

The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance

The Tai Chi guy

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 00:55:41Read transcript

Elmo the chef is named first, then displaced: the Tai Chi guy is proposed and someone goes "with him over the chef".
The Tai Chi guy is chosen over the chef for a pretty big scene; a host adds that he has the Tai Chi guy coming up later in a segment.
The head wrestling coach always wearing the singlet is called "a bit of a Deon Waiter's moment" (as transcribed).

Half-Assed Internet Research

Modine's comment on Madonna; Frank Jasper's weight cuts and wrestle-off audition; Schoeffling's wrestling background; Modine's Venice Beach fan story

In the discussion (6)

Approx. transcript time · 00:57:47Read transcript

Research read on air quotes Modine a couple of years ago saying Madonna looked like Boy George and people were not impressed despite producers predicting stardom.
Research read on air says Frank Jasper was a trainer and bodybuilder who cut to about 189, never reached 168, and had to cut again for reshoots.
Research read on air says he got the part by hanging around the shoot, then winning a wrestle-off against another candidate in front of the producers and director.
He shows little range and it was not a launching-pad part, though he moved to L.A.
Research read on air says the actor who played Cooch was an accomplished wrestler who won freestyle gold with a U.S. junior team in 1978, scaled back to lose to Modine, and left the business by about 1990.
Research read on air says that about 25 years later Modine told the Spokane paper that a driver jumped from a moving car in Venice Beach to say Vision Quest saved his life.

Apex Mountain

1980s wrestling movies; Frank Jasper

In the discussion (9)

Approx. transcript time · 01:00:19Read transcript

Apex Mountain is cued and deferred for one more research item.
For Modine, this versus Full Metal Jacket is raised, and the movie is called Apex Mountain for nobody.
1980s wrestling movies are named as Apex Mountain.
Spokane gets a probable yes, and later a joking question whether it ever got better for Spokane than this movie.
Michael Schoeffling is tied to 16 Candles instead.
It is Frank Jasper's Apex Mountain.
The singlet is tied instead to Saturday afternoon TV wrestling.
For John Waite, Missing You may be the bigger song, so 1985 is offered as his overall Apex.
For Fiorentino (transcribed "Thorntino"), the peak is placed with a Peter Berg movie rather than this one.

The Neil McCauley “A Book about Metals” Award for Best Line from the Movie

"His own father has to use a live wire to keep him from fucking the fireplace"; "I loved your piece on the clitoris. I showed it to my mother."; "A cooze doctor in outer space"

In the discussion (4)

Approx. transcript time · 01:09:52Read transcript

The line about the champion's father using a live wire to keep him from the fireplace is called a good, pretty great line.
"I loved your piece on the clitoris. I showed it to my mother" is offered and called good.
Loudon's plan to become a gynecologist, "a cooze doctor in outer space", is offered among Modine's many strange lines.
Loudon may be going insane from not eating; the Wikipedia summary says Carla distracts him, which never comes across.

Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake

Yes

In the discussion (5)

Approx. transcript time · 01:10:09Read transcript

A remake series could work after 35 years, updated to 2020, with wrestling as a contained sports gimmick like boxing.
There have been oddly few wrestling movies; The World According to Garp had some wrestling.
In today's version the high school kid would not hook up with the woman staying with his family.
The hosts say a 2009 remake was discussed with Taylor Lautner possibly attached, which would have been bad.
A version with a female Loudon is proposed, given women's wrestling now, with a season two joke about dating the mom.

Probably Unanswerable Questions

Did Charlie Sheen take Michael Schoeffling's career?; Where did Loudon's new wrestling shoes come from?; What happens to Loudon after high school?; How bad does Loudon smell?; Did the champion choke?

In the discussion (8)

Approx. transcript time · 01:13:36Read transcript

Charlie Sheen may have taken Michael Schoeffling's career: the Lucas and Ferris Bueller types, and a Wall Street, Platoon and Young Guns run he could have handled.
Loudon's cheap wrestling shoes become expensive red ones late in the film, suggested to come from the Tai Chi room-service guest Kevin, whose lemon meringue and coffee routine is mocked.
Loudon's future is imagined as prison, a bar storyteller about space travel, a cult leader, a wrestler at Washington State, or a teacher who gets fired.
How bad he smells after the rubber suit, and why Margie is both editor and chief sports writer of the paper.
After Carla leaves, Loudon dates Margie.
A Vision Quest 2 would follow Elmo to Brazil to meet Pele; another wants to know what happened to the champion.
How Loudon stays unpopular after the pegboard, dating a 21-year-old and beating the champion.
A First Take parody debates whether the champion choked, up 13-9 with 27 seconds left, instead of taking the win.

Who Won the Movie?

Linda Fiorentino; Matthew Modine

In the discussion (3)

Approx. transcript time · 01:22:57Read transcript

Fiorentino is picked; she is great and the reason to go back, and her uneven acting is called a little punk rock.
Modine is picked because he plays someone with many unredeeming qualities yet you root for him throughout.
A third participant answers that traditional atlases win, a joke about how long the drive to the grandfather's house took without a Google map; not counted as a ballot.

Podcast choices

Speaker not identified: Linda Fiorentino
Speaker not identified: Matthew Modine

More from the conversation

A cold open riffs "it ain't the 85 minutes, it's what happens in the 85 minutes" and calls this the second installment of the flawed Rewatchables before a trailer plays.

Approx. transcript time · 00:00:54Read transcript

The episode is introduced as episode two of the flawed Rewatchables: incredibly rewatchable movies that have one flaw, to be revealed later.

Approx. transcript time · 00:01:34Read transcript

Setup: a 1985 movie starring Modine about a high school wrestler, Loudon Swain, who has just turned 18, wants to make his mark, and decides to cut from 190 to 168 pounds to wrestle the unbeatable guy in the state.

Approx. transcript time · 00:02:14Read transcript

It is called the greatest and nearly the only wrestling movie, basically this, Win Win and a bunch of professional wrestling movies; for the wrestling community it became what Slap Shot became for hockey.

Approx. transcript time · 00:02:48Read transcript

It is described as a quintessential 80s movie that does not know it is an 80s movie, feeling more like a 70s movie, unlike 80s blockbusters, Amblin-style adventures, John Carpenter horror or John Hughes comedies.

Approx. transcript time · 00:03:02Read transcript

One participant had never seen Vision Quest until the day before, and says that was not the arrogant kind of skipping famous movies.

Approx. transcript time · 00:03:50Read transcript

The Wrestler is set aside as professional wrestling; Foxcatcher is called depressing and Win Win pretty good, with Vision Quest judged better.

Approx. transcript time · 00:04:28Read transcript

The title is debated: one note calls it the worst title ever, while another participant likes it because an 18-year-old who does not know who he is is on a vision quest, as Cooch says.

Approx. transcript time · 00:04:53Read transcript

The Wikipedia summary is said to be clearer than the movie itself; the movie opens with its hero eating lunch alone, prompting a host to recall two years as a self-aware solo lunch guy after moving in sophomore year.

Approx. transcript time · 00:05:28Read transcript

The state champion is set up as a bad guy but is just a very good wrestler, first seen carrying a log up stadium steps; he is intimidating but not a Cobra Kai villain, and his jean-jacket look is compared to John Mellencamp.

Approx. transcript time · 00:06:35Read transcript

Loudon may be the real bad guy: selfish, he ruins Cooch's confidence, cuts weight, gets nosebleeds that cost him a match to Lewis Smith, and insists wrestling is an individual sport; compared with Danny in The Karate Kid.

Approx. transcript time · 00:07:19Read transcript

Loudon is weird for a mid-80s hero: a hotel room-service worker who wants to be an astronaut gynecologist and writes a school-paper editorial about female anatomy, talking like a Coen Brothers character; the Spokane setting is called important.

Approx. transcript time · 00:08:48Read transcript

The hot girl moving into his house is a classic 80s trope (Weird Science, The Sure Thing); the movie combines that with working-class high school sports movies like Wildcats and All the Right Moves.

Approx. transcript time · 00:10:23Read transcript

A decade of sports movies from The Longest Yard through Rocky, Slap Shot, the Bad News Bears films, Semi-Tough and North Dallas Forty hit every sport, so by 1985 they reached high school wrestling; Johnny Be Good is placed around 1986.

Approx. transcript time · 00:11:02Read transcript

The first-time viewer loved Linda Fiorentino; the hosts say she has two different listed birth years, that this was her first movie, won at her first audition, and that she was 21 to his 18, leaving the viewer unsure whether they would end up together.

Approx. transcript time · 00:12:35Read transcript

As in the Breakfast Club episode they just did, this is the MTV and Miami Vice era: montages built on Journey, John Waite, Lunatic Fringe, and Crazy for You heard three times, once performed live by early Madonna at a local club.

Approx. transcript time · 00:13:38Read transcript

Bar-scene jokes: ribs and beer with the English teacher, Loudon treating his weight cut like the Cuban missile crisis, a teacher stuck reading Gerard Manley Hopkins, and Loudon as a precursor of the Instagram weight-loss era with an Impossible Burger off the bun.

Approx. transcript time · 00:14:21Read transcript

Weight loss runs through the whole movie; a host with a lifting background says he weighs about 220 to 225 and could get to 210, that a rubber suit is just water, and that 190 seems unrealistic for Loudon at 18; another wonders why nobody asks if Loudon is doing blow.

Approx. transcript time · 00:16:14Read transcript

The hosts name the flaw: they say Loudon basically tries to sexually assault Carla, that she knees him and gets away, and that the movie glosses over it and moves on; they say it did not sit right even in the mid-80s, could easily have been edited, and is pretty rough to watch.

Approx. transcript time · 00:17:55Read transcript

The hosts say the movie had a $2.5 million budget and made $13 million.

Approx. transcript time · 00:19:36Read transcript

The hosts describe a heavyweight pedigree: director Harold Becker (Taps, City Hall), a screenwriter who wrote the novel behind The Last Detail, and producers they identify as the biggest of the era after Bruckheimer and Simpson, with Rain Man and Batman; American Flyers with Costner is cited as a similar cycling movie.

Approx. transcript time · 00:20:00Read transcript

A host still forgets the category order, taking comfort from the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood episode recorded at Sundance where the others corrected him too.

Approx. transcript time · 00:25:23Read transcript

A Way Back digression asks which Kansas era the Affleck character would have played in, landing on the mid-90s before Paul Pierce; the film was said to be originally called The Has Been.

Approx. transcript time · 00:37:55Read transcript

The high school radio station with gossipy lunch announcements is called a movie-only device, with 90210, Do the Right Thing, Reservoir Dogs, The Warriors (best version) and Pump Up the Volume cited; Hard Harry is jokingly named the first podcaster.

Approx. transcript time · 00:46:53Read transcript

A surprise announcement says the flawed Rewatchables is an eight-episode series and Fear will be one of the eight, because it is totally flawed.

Approx. transcript time · 00:48:16Read transcript

A Will Ferrell SNL story: writers kept urging him to wear a country-guy costume all week, until Alec Baldwin asked him to stop; the hosts insist nothing gets edited out.

Approx. transcript time · 00:56:31Read transcript

A host recalls Modine coming at him on Twitter over something said on a podcast, which got squashed; Modine has never been a guest but is wanted, and is praised as a Knicks fan with a relaxed, always-good style.

Approx. transcript time · 01:00:53Read transcript

Fiorentino's later career is traced through Men in Black, little work after 2002 and the Pellicano case per the hosts, and Jade with Caruso, leading to a Caruso digression about leaving to work for Jimmy Kimmel against a father's advice.

Approx. transcript time · 01:04:54Read transcript

A riff on the grandfather's house being in Ontario turns into a mix-up over where Ontario is.

Approx. transcript time · 01:23:45Read transcript

Closing: episode two of the flawed Rewatchables mini series; next week is Ocean's 12, the third installment, with a different crew.

Approx. transcript time · 01:24:33Read transcript