Apex Mountain · 1:17:02
Stallone’s 1985–86 global stardom
Bill Simmons: Rocky IV plus Rambo: First Blood Part II made 1985–86 Stallone’s apex.
Rocky IV was considered a Cold War movie apex candidate, with Red Dawn preferred by one host.
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29:44
33:40
55:51
1:02:01
1:09:49
1:10:44
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1:11:53
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1:14:19
1:17:02
1:25:07
1:29:05
1:29:37
1:29:37
1:38:41
1:40:50
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Who won the movie
Ivan Drago / Dolph Lundgren
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Overacting Award
Carl Weathers
The Neil McCauley “A Book about Metals” Award for Best Line from the Movie · 1:29:05
“Throw the damn towel!”
Bill Simmons: All three hosts selected the same line.
The film
Rocky IV (1985)
Directed by Sylvester Stallone · Sports
91 minutes (theatrical cut)93 minutes (director's cut)
Cast
Selected cast credits · Film reference
Sylvester Stallone
Robert "Rocky" Balboa
Talia Shire
Adrian Pennino Balboa
Burt Young
Paulie Pennino
Carl Weathers
Apollo Creed
Brigitte Nielsen
Ludmilla Vobet Drago
Dolph Lundgren
Captain Ivan Drago
Tony Burton
Tony "Duke" Evers
Michael Pataki
Nicolai Koloff
Rocky Krakoff
Rocky Balboa Jr.
David Lloyd Austin
Mikhail Gorbachev
Everything from the episode
In the order the hosts got to it. Open a row for the discussion.
29:44
Most Delightfully and Ridiculously Improbable Moment
Rocky repeatedly rising; the Soviet crowd turning on Drago; Gorbachev’s standing ovation (support split)
Rocky repeatedly rising; the Soviet crowd turning on Drago; Gorbachev’s standing ovation (support split)
In the discussion (7)
Approx. transcript time · 00:29:44Read transcript
- Rocky taking a Christmas fight in Russia for no money without telling Adrian was nominated. — Bill Simmons
- Rocky climbing a purported 20,000-foot mountain in a light jacket and running boots was nominated. — Bill Simmons
- Rocky surviving roughly 75 knockdowns was nominated. — Kyle Brandt
- The Soviet crowd turning on Drago was nominated. — Bill Simmons
- Gorbachev giving Rocky a standing ovation after the speech was nominated. — Bill Simmons
- One choice was Rocky repeatedly getting up after implausibly many knockdowns. — Kyle Brandt
- The Soviet crowd cheering Rocky became the shared leading objection to plausibility.
33:40
Most Rewatchable Scene
No consensus: the combined training sequences; Drago–Rocky round two; the larger fight and entrance sequence
No consensus: the combined training sequences; Drago–Rocky round two; the larger fight and entrance sequence
In the discussion (12)
Approx. transcript time · 00:33:40Read transcript
- The two training sequences together were the advance favorite and one final choice. — Bill Simmons
- Creed’s “Living in America” entrance was nominated for James Brown, Drago’s confusion, and Apollo’s showmanship. — Bill Simmons
- The full Drago–Creed fight was nominated, including the nicknames, glove touch, “throw the damn towel,” and “if he dies, he dies.”
- The “you can’t win” confrontation with Adrian was nominated.
- The Lamborghini “No Easy Way Out” montage was nominated. — Bill Simmons
- Duke’s “Apollo was like my son” training speech was nominated.
- The first old-school-versus-high-tech training sequence was nominated. — Bill Simmons
- The second training sequence, with the mountain climb and “no pain,” was nominated. — Bill Simmons
- Round two of Rocky–Drago was nominated for “he’s cut,” the tackle, and “he’s a man.”
- Round fifteen was nominated for Drago’s collapse, the crowd turn, and “he’s chopping the Russian down.”
- Rocky’s final speech and Gorbachev slow clap were nominated. — Cousin Sal
- One host chose the nine-minute training and Adrian sequence; another chose the second round.
55:51
What’s Aged the Best?
Drago’s minimal dialogue, Rocky’s clothes, Paulie’s arc, the training contrast, montage density, opening credits, and...
Drago’s minimal dialogue, Rocky’s clothes, Paulie’s arc, the training contrast, montage density, opening credits, and Ivan Drago himself
In the discussion (14)
Approx. transcript time · 00:55:51Read transcript
- Drago’s six terse English lines remain iconic.
- Rocky’s oversized jacket was praised.
- Rocky wearing Cobra-style aviators to Apollo’s funeral was enjoyed as a specific mid-1980s choice.
- Rocky’s Hugo Boss sweatshirts and Scorpion-like robe were praised.
- Paulie’s arc from threatening brother-in-law to essential cut man was praised.
- Adrian’s snake-shaped watch was singled out as exceptionally gaudy.
- The natural-versus-steroids training montage remains effective despite its irony.
- James Brown’s credit as “The Godfather of Soul” was enjoyed. — Bill Simmons
- “Living in America” was reported as Brown’s first top-40 single in eleven years and the last of his career. — Bill Simmons
- The film’s high-tech sports equipment looked ahead of its time. — Bill Simmons
- Nearly 32 percent of the movie was reported to be montage.
- Apollo’s later-unacknowledged son aged well because it enabled the Creed continuation.
- The exploding Soviet and American gloves made the opening credits immediate and memorable. — Kyle Brandt
- Ivan Drago’s lasting screen presence was chosen as the strongest aged-best element. — Bill Simmons
1:02:01
What’s Aged the Worst?
Splintered patriotism, recycled footage, TV-delivered bad news, robot sexual jokes, reduced death impact, poor offici...
Splintered patriotism, recycled footage, TV-delivered bad news, robot sexual jokes, reduced death impact, poor officiating/training, accents, continuity, and the Stallone–Nielsen relationship
In the discussion (15)
Approx. transcript time · 01:02:01Read transcript
- The film’s uncomplicated patriotism felt less relatable in 2020. — Bill Simmons
- Opening another sequel with recycled footage from the prior Rocky was criticized. — Bill Simmons
- Characters discovering major news by accidentally seeing it on television felt dated. — Cousin Sal
- Paulie’s sexualized robot dialogue was the central robot problem.
- The robot itself was defended as essential mid-1980s texture and as a nod to Stallone’s son.
- The hastily made Sports Illustrated and magazine covers looked sloppy. — Bill Simmons
- Apollo’s death has less shock on repeat viewings than it did in 1985. — Bill Simmons
- Drago repeatedly hit Apollo after the bell without sanction. — Cousin Sal
- Rocky’s pre-fight coaching gave Apollo no useful boxing advice. — Bill Simmons
- Rocky froze with the towel while Apollo absorbed extra punishment. — Bill Simmons
- Brigitte Nielsen’s Russian accent was criticized. — Bill Simmons
- Adrian initially refusing to accompany Rocky to Russia was criticized. — Bill Simmons
- The anonymous color commentator was treated as a weak replacement for a recognizable boxing voice. — Bill Simmons
- Apollo’s boxing gloves disappear between cuts before his exchange with Drago. — Bill Simmons
- The Stallone–Nielsen relationship and rapid marriage/divorce became distracting production context. — Bill Simmons
1:09:49
Casting What-Ifs
No casting what-if found
No casting what-if found
In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:09:49Read transcript
- The hosts explicitly reported finding no casting alternatives. — Bill Simmons
- “Glory of Love” was written for this ending before being rejected and used in The Karate Kid Part II. — Bill Simmons
1:10:44
The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award
Michael Pataki as Nikolai Koloff
Michael Pataki as Nikolai Koloff
In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:10:44Read transcript
- Pataki was recognized from Night Shift and many other character roles. — Bill Simmons
1:11:10
The Ruffalo / Hanna / Rubinek / Partridge Overacting Award
Carl Weathers
In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:11:10Read transcript
- Weathers was praised for dialing up every scene before Apollo’s death. — Bill Simmons
1:11:53
The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance
Split: Marianne Creed; James Brown
Split: Marianne Creed; James Brown
In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:11:53Read transcript
- Marianne Creed was praised for perfectly selling love, confusion, and terror in a few reaction shots.
- James Brown was chosen by another host for a complete vintage performance and Apollo fist bump.
1:13:44
Recasting Couch
No change; Arnold Schwarzenegger as Drago rejected
No change; Arnold Schwarzenegger as Drago rejected
In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:13:44Read transcript
- Arnold’s accent and star power made him an intriguing proposed Drago. — Kyle Brandt
- The Stallone–Arnold rivalry likely made the proposed casting impossible.
1:14:19
Half-Assed Internet Research
Research covered real punches and injuries, the Weathers–Lundgren dispute, Italian dubbing, shooting locations, and T...
Research covered real punches and injuries, the Weathers–Lundgren dispute, Italian dubbing, shooting locations, and Tony Burton’s chess strength.
In the discussion (9)
Approx. transcript time · 01:14:19Read transcript
- Stallone and Lundgren agreed to hit each other for real. — Bill Simmons
- Lundgren’s chest punch caused Stallone’s heart to swell against his breastbone. — Bill Simmons
- Stallone’s blood pressure exceeded 200 and he was airlifted from Canada to a Santa Monica hospital. — Cousin Sal
- Carl Weathers nearly left after Lundgren threw him too hard. — Cousin Sal
- Filming stopped for four days while Stallone brokered a reconciliation. — Bill Simmons
- The Italian “I break you in two” translation became a common phrase. — Bill Simmons
- The Russia training scenes were filmed in Wyoming.
- The Moscow fight was filmed at Vancouver’s PNE Agrodome. — Bill Simmons
- Tony Burton was a strong chess player who reportedly beat Stanley Kubrick on The Shining set. — Bill Simmons
1:17:02
Apex Mountain
Stallone’s 1985–86 global stardom; Dolph Lundgren; Warner Wolf; Barry Tompkins; Vince DiCola; movie sit-ups; sports-m...
Stallone’s 1985–86 global stardom; Dolph Lundgren; Warner Wolf; Barry Tompkins; Vince DiCola; movie sit-ups; sports-movie wet-blanket wives; Tony Burton; foreboding synthesizers; 1980s movie montages
In the discussion (14)
Approx. transcript time · 01:17:02Read transcript
- Rocky IV plus Rambo: First Blood Part II made 1985–86 Stallone’s apex. — Bill Simmons
- Rocky IV was considered a Cold War movie apex candidate, with Red Dawn preferred by one host.
- Dolph Lundgren was treated as an apex case. — Bill Simmons
- Survivor’s apex remained Rocky III because “Eye of the Tiger” was the larger phenomenon. — Bill Simmons
- Warner Wolf’s local influence and “let’s go to the videotape” catchphrase made this an apex case. — Bill Simmons
- Barry Tompkins was treated as being at his announcing apex. — Bill Simmons
- Vince DiCola was treated as an apex case. — Bill Simmons
- The hayloft and fire-lit sit-ups were called an apex for movie sit-ups.
- The Russian anthem lost to The Hunt for Red October and earlier wrestling or game uses.
- Adrian was argued as an apex sports-movie wet-blanket wife.
- Tony Burton was treated as an apex case for Duke’s expanded role.
- The robot lost the 1980s-robot apex to alternatives including Terminator and Johnny 5.
- The film’s foreboding synthesizer music was considered an apex case.
- Rocky IV was selected as the apex for 1980s movie montages.
1:25:07
Picking Nits
Possible charges for Drago, Paulie’s sobriety, Soviet eligibility, the deleted title-belt scene, broken chronology, a...
Possible charges for Drago, Paulie’s sobriety, Soviet eligibility, the deleted title-belt scene, broken chronology, and lack of ringside doctors
In the discussion (7)
Approx. transcript time · 01:25:07Read transcript
- Whether Drago could face manslaughter charges for Apollo’s death was debated. — Cousin Sal
- Paulie’s apparently improved control of his drinking was left unexplained. — Cousin Sal
- A Soviet heavyweight would not have been allowed to box professionals during the Cold War. — Bill Simmons
- The deleted boxing-board scene left Rocky’s title surrender unexplained. — Bill Simmons
- Apollo’s stated five-year retirement conflicts with the timing of Rocky’s marriage and rematch. — Bill Simmons
- Rocky Jr. ages implausibly across Rocky IV and Rocky V. — Bill Simmons
- The exhibition inexplicably lacked a visible fight doctor. — Bill Simmons
1:29:05
The Neil McCauley “A Book about Metals” Award for Best Line from the Movie
“Throw the damn towel!”
“Throw the damn towel!”
In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:29:05Read transcript
- All three hosts selected the same line. — Bill Simmons
1:29:37
Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All-Black Remake
No ten-episode remake
No ten-episode remake
In the discussion (1)
Approx. transcript time · 01:29:37Read transcript
- The panel did not want a serialized remake. — Bill Simmons
1:29:37
Probably Unanswerable Questions
Exhibition rules and betting lines, the mountain, Ludmilla’s swimming career, bromance history, an Adrian plane-crash...
Exhibition rules and betting lines, the mountain, Ludmilla’s swimming career, bromance history, an Adrian plane-crash rewrite, scorecards, and punch statistics
In the discussion (8)
Approx. transcript time · 01:29:37Read transcript
- How many rounds was the Creed–Drago exhibition supposed to last? — Cousin Sal
- The hosts estimated betting lines for Creed–Drago, Rocky–Apollo, and Rocky–Drago. — Cousin Sal
- How high was Rocky’s mountain and how would he return safely? — Kyle Brandt
- Was Ludmilla a steroid-using champion swimmer?
- Was Rocky and Apollo’s relationship the original movie bromance? — Bill Simmons
- Would the movie improve if the KGB shot down Adrian’s flight to Russia?
- What was the score heading into round fifteen, given all the knockdowns? — Bill Simmons
- Reported punch counts underscored how unrealistic the final fight was. — Bill Simmons
1:38:41
What Piece of Memorabilia Would You Want From This Movie?
The bloody “throw the damn towel” towel
The bloody “throw the damn towel” towel
In the discussion (3)
Approx. transcript time · 01:38:41Read transcript
- The snake watch and Rocky’s funeral/Cobra aviators were proposed.
- The bloody towel was the strongest choice if it could be authenticated. — Bill Simmons
- The robot, gloves, trunks, James Brown robe, and treadmill were other candidates. — Bill Simmons
1:40:50
Who Won the Movie?
Ivan Drago / Dolph Lundgren
Ivan Drago / Dolph Lundgren
In the discussion (2)
Approx. transcript time · 01:40:50Read transcript
- Dolph Lundgren’s unproven arrival and indelible villain performance were the main case.
- The United States was proposed as a thematic winner, but Ivan Drago became the shared final answer. — Bill Simmons
More from the conversation
The opening thesis jokingly credited Rocky IV with ending the Cold War, supported by a chronology of late-1980s U.S.–Soviet de-escalation.
Approx. transcript time · 00:02:01Read transcript
The movie was framed as an unusually rewatchable “good-bad” film built from montages, music videos, and a few connective scenes.
Approx. transcript time · 00:04:11Read transcript
The panel compared the two training montages, bearded and clean-shaven Rocky, and the implausible mountain climb.
Approx. transcript time · 00:10:15Read transcript
The “No Easy Way Out” driving montage carried strong personal nostalgia and was praised for its gear-shift melodrama.
Approx. transcript time · 00:17:31Read transcript
Drago’s high-tech training and the movie’s box-office/sports-movie records were discussed alongside sharply divided Ebert and Siskel reviews.
Approx. transcript time · 00:24:51Read transcript
The production’s use of real physical contact caused a serious Stallone injury and a separate Weathers–Lundgren work stoppage.
Approx. transcript time · 01:14:32Read transcript
Mentions across The Rewatchables
Double Feature
Apollo 13
The Rewatchables · aired August 25, 2026
First Man, Gravity, The Martian and Rocky IV
Picked by Craig Horlbeck
Approx. transcript time · 01:47:48Read transcript
Source 1
Double Feature
Rambo: First Blood Part II
The Rewatchables · aired September 15, 2026
First Blood; Cobra; Rocky IV as an additional option
Approx. transcript time · 01:37:39Read transcript
Source 1